Dwarf shrimp and ei

[ShadowMac]

I have been reading that dwarf shrimp are sensitive to nitrates. I would like to start a breeding colony in a 29 gallon tank. I have been keeping them in a 20 gallon tank that I have running as a high tech (high light, CO2, EI dosing). After dosing my EI yesterday I found two dead that evening. Could this be the cause? There are many other possibilities, but this isn't their permanent home. I tested and ammonia is zero. I don't have a reliable kit for nitrate, not that most store bought kits are reliable anyways.

The 29 gallon tank I have planned as a low tech to avoid issues, slow and stable. However, the point is to have a healthy breeding colony of shrimp to use to populate other tanks that will be more than likely high tech scapes. Will the EI dosing be an issue for them? particularly the nitrate dosing?

Tom, I know you have a fire red shrimp tank. How do you care for it? Anyone else have a shrimp tank used for this purpose?

Any tips, tricks, thoughts, and suggestions related to shrimp tanks/breeding/caring are welcome and appreciated. As always thanks everyone!

 

[Tom Barr]

Shrimp are sensitive CO2/Excel, not ferts.
So EI is not applicable since it is used mostly for CO2 and plants.
Since shrimp breeding is the goal, non CO2 methods should apply.
Yes, you can keep shrimp without issue in CO2 enriched tanks, but the brood production is reduced vs non CO2.

Same deal with fish for that matter.

Copper is toxic to shrimp and Excel more than to fish, but both can kill fish and shrimp as well.
Same deal with CO2 gas.

Bottom line, stop worrying about NO3, there are bigger shrimp to fry.

 

[ShadowMac]

rumors and myths abound!

Thanks, Tom. I had expected that would be the response, but there was so much info about how shrimp were sensitive to nitrate.

While i get the 29 up and running I will lower lighting and CO2 in the 20 to ensure that CO2 is not an issue.

I'm excited about doing this low tech as I plan it to be a place not only for my shrimp, but any rams that I have pair off, so they have a safe and happy place to spawn.

Copper shouldn't have been an issue, unless there is residue from many years ago when I probably treated the tank for ich before discovering planted tanks and the heat treatment for ich.

 

[barbarossa4122]

Are RCS also sensitive to Glut and Co2 ? I am dosing both for a few months now and they are doing fine. Can they be affected in the long run ?

 

[Tom Barr]

Are RCS also sensitive to Glut and Co2 ? I am dosing both for a few months now and they are doing fine. Can they be affected in the long run ?

I get consistently higher brood production without CO2/Excel etc.

So in some tanks, it's just plain better to add CO2 CRS and perhaps many other species do have a marked reduction in fry, I still have good results, but there's less fry produced.
I cannot rule out the issue of CO2/Excel, but I do have tanks where the NO3 are fairly high and non CO2 run tanks, and much better brood production occurs, a few other shrimp folks have also noted this, and have not found this with variations in the KNO3 dosing. Copper is harder to measure and few seem to measure it/dose and then observe like NO3 or CO2/Excel.

 

[barbarossa4122]

Thanks Tom. I bought 50 RCS about 3-4 months ago and now the colony must be over 250. I dose Glut every day, co2/yellow drop checker, nitrate between 30 and 40 ppm. My wife loves the RCS and she keeps a close eye on the tanks b/c she thinks I am going to kill her shrimps with my co2 and ferts dosing. So, if anything goes wrong with the shrimps, I'll be the first to know.

 

[ShadowMac]

I seem to have been having success with breeding in the high tech setup. I've counted around 14 (hard to tell) young shrimp from a single hatching of my fire reds. Maybe the deaths were just coincidental and not related to anything. The young ones seem to be doing well, although I've heard Tom say that F1's tend to be hardier. I've also noticed one of my orange-eyed blue tigers has berried and have observed molting remains, so something must be going right.

What is a good number to expect from a single hatching?

I still plan on using the 29 as a low tech breeding tank and have begun to cycle it.

 

[Tom Barr]

Blue tigers will be more touchy than any RCS or Fire.
If you are into shrimp, go non CO2, you'll have little issues with them.

The ADA 60p tank I did is a good example.

Also, see the toxicity eradication test I did trying to kill them with traces and with KNO3.
Nada.........

Ended up using insecticide, pyrethins.

 

[Matt F.]

I concur with Tom's experience. If you want shrimp to reproduce more readily, reduce glut and co2. The shrimp will survive with both added, but will not reproduce as much....ferts are a non-issue.

I'm injecting 3-4 bps (well over 40ppm) of CO2 in my Mini-M and dosing more than the suggested dose of EI ferts in this tank. I am also dosing 2.5ml per day of glutaraldehyde. The RCS and Amano pop is stable.

 

[Tom Barr]

I think it might be premature, but the evidence is certainly mounting that shrimp are NOT as touchy regarding ferts, but rather, the Excel/CO2, TDS perhaps........but, we still have not tested all 50 or more types of shrimp, some seem more touchy than others.
So it's tough to come out and claim all shrimp are sensitive to CO2/Excel but not ferts.

We really do not know for many of them, but...........we do for quite a few, and enough to make some general comments about the more common ones we might keep.
If you are into the more obscure and rare species, then you likely are a breeder and have no business adding CO2/ferts etc anyhow.

 

[Matt F.]

I think it might be premature, but the evidence is certainly mounting that shrimp are NOT as touchy regarding ferts, but rather, the Excel/CO2, TDS perhaps........but, we still have not tested all 50 or more types of shrimp, some seem more touchy than others.
So it's tough to come out and claim all shrimp are sensitive to CO2/Excel but not ferts.

We really do not know for many of them, but...........we do for quite a few, and enough to make some general comments about the more common ones we might keep.
If you are into the more obscure and rare species, then you likely are a breeder and have no business adding CO2/ferts etc anyhow.

I should have specified that I was talking about rcs and amanos. I don't add ferts, glut, or co2 to my crs tank.

 

[stonedaquarium]

hi guys im kinda new to this forum but its great to hear some great tips and insights to the hobby. Just a quick question since the topic is revolving shrimp breeding... I got about 6 fire reds that are all berried for about 2 weeks now but yet i have not seen the eggs develop eyes.. or anything. I just did a major WC in my planted tank due to spirogyra attacks which i dunno how to properly take care of. but still in the process of learning and figuring things out. with regard to the shirmps i notices the shrimps molted and now have lost their appetite and just continued hiding all throughout the day? what could have caused this behavior ... im just concerned i might have done something that could possibly wipe out my colony? sorry, im just a newbie to shrimp keeping...

 

[ShadowMac]

How long have the shrimp been in the tank? I find that newly added/acclimated shrimp tend to be more active. They move around the tank more. Once they are comfortable they hide more. The important thing is to observe if they are grazing. Their front pincers should be picking at rock,substrate, and other hardscape. If they are doing this then they are happy. If they are not moving at all, something may be making them uncomfortable. Any fish in the tank? fish will make them hide more. I have a couple blue rams in my shrimp tank at the moment so they are hiding more, but come out when the lights go off and scavenge for food.

Eggs take longer than 2 weeks to develop. About 4-6 weeks, IME.

 

[stonedaquarium]

How long have the shrimp been in the tank? I find that newly added/acclimated shrimp tend to be more active. They move around the tank more. Once they are comfortable they hide more. The important thing is to observe if they are grazing. Their front pincers should be picking at rock,substrate, and other hardscape. If they are doing this then they are happy. If they are not moving at all, something may be making them uncomfortable. Any fish in the tank? fish will make them hide more. I have a couple blue rams in my shrimp tank at the moment so they are hiding more, but come out when the lights go off and scavenge for food.

Eggs take longer than 2 weeks to develop. About 4-6 weeks, IME.

the shrimp have been in the tank for about 4 weeks now. its a shrimp only tank as i intend of making it a breeding colony... their pincers seemed to be picking at rock substrate. and some dead leaves and old exoskeletons... Ammonia is at zero. could it be due to the temperature being too high? temp is at 84 degrees?

 

[ShadowMac]

that is on the higher end of the temp range. I like mine at 78. Cherry shrimp prefer 78-80 I think and some other shrimp prefer cooler.

 

[Aquadream]

I have been breeding CRS for a while by now and have established that maximum breeding results are achievable with no NO3, no CO2 and no ferts of any kind. I have 99%+ survival in this way, but it is a bit boring to look at the CRS cow's farm without much plants. In my CRS tanks only some moss can propagate and no other plants.

 

[Tom Barr]

I never had any issues with NO3's.......and CRS at SS+ and SSS grades.........they bred quite fast, but when CO2 was added, the production of brood drop dramatically.
Same stock and I removed them from the CO2, and they started breeding at the high rate again.

I had 100% survival but just less brood.

I dosed EI standard ppm's, about 15ppm 3x a week for NO3 as KNO3 with ADA AS.
Other local shrimp breeders who keep and breed high end shrimp also confirm this observation, good stable TDS, temps on the lower end etc........
Plants and the ferts had little impact.

 

[mastin]

Ada as

What is ADA AS?
I'm assuming it's an ADA product, but not sure which one.
Thank you!
David

I never had any issues with NO3's.......and CRS at SS+ and SSS grades.........they bred quite fast, but when CO2 was added, the production of brood drop dramatically.
Same stock and I removed them from the CO2, and they started breeding at the high rate again.

I had 100% survival but just less brood.

I dosed EI standard ppm's, about 15ppm 3x a week for NO3 as KNO3 with ADA AS.
Other local shrimp breeders who keep and breed high end shrimp also confirm this observation, good stable TDS, temps on the lower end etc........
Plants and the ferts had little impact.

 

[Tom Barr]

ADA aqua soil amazonia

 

[mastin]

Ah ok cool.
thank you very much, David