Barr GH Booster makes water acidic? - Page 3 - Aquarium Plants

VaughnH · 06-05-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carissa

I'm not a chemistry buff whatsoever, but I try to learn... this is probably oversimplifying it but I have to start somewhere.

So if there are extra H+ kicking around anyway, isn't the water already by definition acidic? Would the reaction of the excess H+ with the other things somehow make the water more acidic than it already was before? If so, don't more H+'s have to be coming from somewhere? How can more H+ be around to lower pH if we don't add any more H? Is this what you're saying Tom?

In my little experiment, the KH2PO4 made the water more acidic. I see an H there in the equation so this must have ultimately caused it in some way, right? The Plantex CSM+B did too, but I don't know the ingredients of this. The K2SO4 did nothing....because I wasn't adding any H? My understanding of this is far from complete....it's been way too long since chemistry class.

Well, let an expert........how about someone who took a chemistry course about 50 years ago?....comment. The pH is not a measure of extra H+, it is a measure of how much H+ isn't balanced by OH-. So, the H+ has to come from an acid like HCl, or H2SO4, etc. where the H+ is not balanced with OH-. I don't know how the H in KH2PO4 fits in there.

Tom Barr · 06-05-2008, 02:20 AM

Now you are going past the GH booster and dealing with another set of salts.

KH2PO4 is a weak acid salt.
Alum is another.......but stronger...

PO4 salts are used to target more acid systems as "acid buffers". They are not true buffers, but conceptually, it helps folks to think about them that way.

Baking soda is a moderate alkaline salt.

However, most of the GH components and their effects on tank pH in planted tanks relative to the total dissolved ions is minimal, certainly PO4 is way down there.

I'd not worry, nor fret over pH too much with respect to planted tanks, focus on Ca, Mg, KH and CO2.

Regards,
Tom Barr

rusticitas · 06-05-2008, 12:21 PM

Tom,

I was getting worried about the pH because I recalled one of your Report articles was saying "ideal" plant growth pH was around 6.7 or close to that. And also i was concerned that perhaps it being that low might be dangerous for the fish, not that any looked unhappy, per se, but the numbers were not what I read about in various literature (for planted tanks, killies, etc).

I was not panicking just concerned that I had set up an unhealthy or unstable environment where even though the fish and plants seemed ok, there was a looming or lurking problem.

-Jason

mrkookm · 06-05-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

I'd not worry, nor fret over pH too much with respect to planted tanks, focus on Ca, Mg, KH and CO2.

My PH is in the upper 4's to low 5's and I have yet to experience any issue with any fish, shrimp or plants. As Barr suggest focus on the more important things outlined.

Tom Barr · 06-05-2008, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusticitas

Tom,

I was getting worried about the pH because I recalled one of your Report articles was saying "ideal" plant growth pH was around 6.7 or close to that. And also i was concerned that perhaps it being that low might be dangerous for the fish, not that any looked unhappy, per se, but the numbers were not what I read about in various literature (for planted tanks, killies, etc).

I was not panicking just concerned that I had set up an unhealthy or unstable environment where even though the fish and plants seemed ok, there was a looming or lurking problem.

-Jason

I almost would promise that I do not say there's any ideal pH for plants.
If I have, I'd say I mis spoke.

I would rather say that the TDS or the actually KH GH concentrations should be more stable vs pH.

pH can move and does when you add CO2.
Mine moves all over every 24 hour cycle.

No issues.

Do not worry about pH FWIW.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Tom Barr · 06-05-2008, 08:57 PM

Mrkookm has very low pH's.
Likewise, the pH is some tanks might range from 7.3 to 8.2 daily and the plants will be fine.

So can we say that much about a target pH?
Or rather, that other factors play a larger role in determining plant growth?

Regards,

nickmcmechan · 06-08-2008, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Barr

CaSO4
MgSO4
FeSO4
MnSO4
K2SO4

See anything that alters pH?

Regards,
Tom Barr

are you pointing to SO4 Tom?

i.e. SO4 ==> H2SO4; acid rain?

or are you saying its not possible?

i would be interested in the fact as i add Calcium Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate and Sodium Bicarbonate in my Malawi (non planted) tank to raise kH / gH - sorry I know thats non planted, but i suppose we could it a control tank for the effects of these in comparison to planted on my water which has kH and gH both less than 20ppm from the tap

VaughnH · 06-08-2008, 07:04 PM

SO2, sulphur dioxide, is the compound that ends up causing acid rain. The sulphate ion is never present in the air to mix with anything. When coal, which contains sulphur, burns, the sulphur oxidizes to SO2, leading to acid rain. The same must be true for oil containing sulphur.

rusticitas · **Effect of dechlorinator? -** 06-13-2008, 10:46 PM

While still tracking this down, and I will have time this weekend do follow up on this and test two different bags of GH Booster as a sanity check I have one question ...

Can dechlorinators affect pH?

Carissa · 06-14-2008, 01:10 PM

In general I don't think they are supposed to. I don't understand the reactions behind how they work. But, I have heard of instances where using a product to detoxify ammonia (as many dechlorinators do) has caused a pH crash in a low KH tank, I did some research at the time and it seemed plausible that the product did cause this, in fact it was acknowledged on the product's web site. So if you are doing tests, you might want to stick with a very standard dechlorinator that does not claim to detoxify ammonia, or use none at all. Maybe someone else knows more about this reaction.