Hi I'm new here and to planted tanks. I love keeping fish and since I have started to play around with planting my tanks I find that I like this hobby even more. I have two tanks and I am trying two different dosing methods

Well on to my setups and questions

tank # 1

10 Gallon tank standard


only one otto for fish
DIY CO2 yeast. 2-BPS
lighting t-8's 15W X 2 - 10 hours a day
substrate - shultz aquarium soil
Plants crypts, Red tiger Lotus, HM, Hygrophillia Polysperma, Flame Moss
I am using PMDD method to dose for ferts.
Temp @ 78


So far all of the plants seem to be doing well except for the HM. It's not growing at all. I think I have enough light CO2 and ferts. I just can't figure out what is missing.... I also am battling diatoms right now in this tank and it's a pain trying to clean it off the HM. The Otto seems to perfer to clean the larger plants. So I try to clean the HM as best as I can. They are not rooted in yet and I always get a few stems floating up to the surface.

Second Tank

46 Gallon Tall (22")

4 Discus, 3 German Rams, 1 Bristlenose Pleco, 9 Cardinal Tetras
DIY CO2 yeast 2-3 BPS
Lighting 1 x 55 W PC (coralife)
Substrate - Eco complete mixed with regluar aquarium gravel
Plants - Anibias, Jungle Val, Crypts, Christmas moss, Java Fern, Elatine Triandra, Red Lotus,
Dosing ferts using EI method
Temp @ 85

Everything is wrong.... I have algae issues, and my plants aren't doing so well. I have tried rasing the CO2 and cutting back on ferts. But still no improvements. I'm thinking the temp might be too high. The only plant that has done well so far is the Elatine Triandra it still not rooted that well but it has spread out a bit. I posted all the info I can think of any input or advice would be greatly appreciated. If anyone need more info on my setups please let me know.

The 46 gallon tank is too low on light. The depth of the tank makes it effectively even lower on light - the amount of light reaching the substrate is much too low. I suggest adding a second 55 watt light.

You can't judge your CO2 concentration by bubbles per second. That 2-3 bbs could end up giving you little more than atmospheric concentration of CO2 in the tank, depending on how you are introducing it into the tank. If you get a cheap little drop checker you can easily see if you are even close to having enough concentration.

You don't mention filtration, but the 46 gallon tank needs good water circulation to keep fertilized water available to all of the plants. That can be from a canister filter with carefully positioned outlet in the tank, a powerhead, or both.

I have had no success with a ten gallon tank either, so I will leave that one for others to comment on.

If you're doing co2, you really need drop checkers for both tanks, especially so with diy. There's no other way of accurately determining co2 concentration in the water, there are too many other variables (such as diffusion efficiency, circulation and offgassing, etc.). It's not really worth trying to fix anything else, until you get a handle on your co2.

I think the priorities should be:
1. Pick a tank that is good for plants.
2. Pick a substrate that is good for plants.
3. Pick an adequate light fixture for your plant growth goals.
4. Set up a CO2 system that provides the CO2 you need in a stable way.
5. Pick a fertilizing method that provides non-limiting amounts of NPK and traces.
6. Pick the plants that are appropriate for the light you have and grow at the rate you want.
7. Study the Barr Report again!

My 10 gallon non-co2 tank does quite well, especially for a non-co2 environment. It seemed to take a lot longer to become stable, though. I have two 11 watt cf's on it. I did have some issues with bba a little while ago, which I got rid of by fixing the problem (sunlight was hitting the tank) and pruning/bleach dipping badly affected plants, and upping water changes for a while. I only keep hardy plants in it though.

Sorry I should have mentioned that I have drop checkers in both tanks. Both are always green. I have a canister filter in the 46 gallon (eiheim 2213) and a whisper 10 in the 10 gallon.

Really not enough light on the 46? The unit is accually is a 2 x 65 W unit but I never used the second bulb because I have had algae since I turned the unit on.

If those lights have good reflectors, I think you need at least 70 or 75 watts, unless you restrict yourself to anubias, java ferns, maybe some crypts. To grow most plants, again with good reflectors for those bulbs, my experience suggests that the minimum is at least 80 watts. Those numbers are for a tank with the usual 16" or do depth. Having a 22 inch deep tank makes it harder to get enough light at the substrate level without still more light. That's why I suggested you go with 110 watts. I use that amount on a 45 gallon tank, but only about 16" or less deep, and I can get good growth of almost all plants I have tried.

If you assume the intensity from those lights drops off proportional to the distance from the bulbs, a pretty good assumption, you would need 22/16 times as much light as I have, or 150 watts to have the same substrate level intensity that I have.

All of that is little more than a crude analysis, but I think it does suggest that you need more light.

I will try adding a second 55W bulb to see if that helps. I haven't up until now because I have had algae growth since day one and I belived that too much light was causing the problem. One of the hardest thing that I have found to do in planted aquaria is finding the balance of light, ferts, and CO2 it seems in most cases there is very little margin for error.

hoppy, I can't see the rational of adding more light in the face of an algal bloom. It seems highly unlikely that the bloom was triggered by insufficient light and it seems even less likely that doubling the light now will help at this moment. certainly, once the algae problem is solved lighting increase would be called for.

It seems to me that it would help to determine specifically what kind of algae is present in order to give us a clue as to cause.

It's easy to claim to be dosing EI but how many times have we seen where the poster had massively under-dosed while all the time thinking that his/her dosing was adequate? So we'd have to immediately suspect dosing or poor CO2/flow before moving on to increasing the light.

filipem, perhaps you could explain exactly how many teaspoons or grams of KNO3/KH2PO4 you are dosing and with what frequency they are being dosed? If you had mixed the powders in water could you tell us how you prepared the mixtures?

Could you also confirm that your dropchecker is filled with 4 kH water and not tank water or tap water?

Could you also identify the type of algae you are getting? You could have a look here for identification if you are not sure of the names=> James' Planted Tank - Algae Guide

Also, what type of filtration is the 46G using? many times the tank is under-filtered causing poor ammonia removal and poor flow distribution which can result in nutrient deficiency even when dosing proper amounts.

Cheers,

I agree that the algae won't get better just by adding more light. My only point was that the plants won't grow well without more light, and healthy growing plants is the first defense against algae. I still believe that once we select a particular tank and substrate, the light is the next thing that needs to be selected, followed by a fertilizing, including CO2, regime. Only after those are well selected do you have a good shot at establishing an algae free tank.

My first thought on reading the original post was that a few of the basics needed to be corrected before going into the subject of algae. And, the light was the first thing I noticed. I didn't even mention the second thing - that seems to be a tank with too much fish in it too. I don't have experience with Discus, but as I understand it, those fish require lots of water changes to control the contamination they cause. And, four in a 46 gallon tank, unless they are very small and are going to be kept very small, is too many.