[Tom Barr]

Apparently several forum owners seem to think that the BarrReport's asking for money is not right and that folks can getb such information anywhere for free, yet they have premium, sponser, vendor, supporting membership where folks pay, so they can add pictures and/or increase their picture sizes they can load into threads, increased mail box sized for PM's, and they also banners all over.

I have no issue with them doing so, but it's not any different than a subscription pay forum either.

The BarrReport has never been so much about a forum to replace the other forums, rather, it's more a discussion and help area for other aspects not covered in the monthly articles.

The monthly articles are the core and give the readership insight into each major area of plant health, husbandtry that you will not find elsewhere.

I also spend more time with folks here trying to help them solve any issue they might have.

But consider those premium memberships on other forms and the knee jerk reaction folks had when I offered this for $, it's not much really. Less than some of those services, less than many society memberships.
An Aqua Journal runs about 10-12$ for one issue.

I've given to several forums freely, namely because I like them and want to see them continue such as Aquaria Central as well as others.

I synthesize both science and hobbyists related materials together to find what is really known. Sometimes there are larger gaps in the science and the hobby, that is research and science for you, and one answer leads to 5 more questions, but therein lies the passion for it.

This next article on Iron and Manganese will be interesting for folks as well as things like Zinc, Copper and other trace elements.
Some basic ideas I return to but focus much more on certain nutrients.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Bill]

Hi Tom,

You fee is very low and you do an excellent job.

Some of the items discussed here could also be discussed on others forums but you do provide a lot of material that isn't available on any of the other forums.

I have learned a lot from many people on the different forums which I am very grateful for but I would have to say that I have learned more about aquatic gardening from the information provided by you thru articles and post than anyone else.

Since I have learned so much from you I respect you thoughts and opinions on aquatic gardening and I enjoy reading your comments on each thread.

Thanks for providing this web site,
Bill

[freemann]

Apparently several forum owners seem to think that the Barr Report’s asking for money is not right and that folks can get such information anywhere for free.

Well Tom it seems that you have some low popularity around as well
To be sincere I prefer this pay 10 dollars and be done with it, than this premium memberships and all this advertisements all over the forums. I really hate this ads and sponsors coming up everywhere within the forums-postings (gives the sites a feeling of "decadence" for me) and there we really talk lots of money prolly not justified as a means to pay just the monthly charge of the hosting, which it can be at the most 200 - 300 dollars a month. Also I have a feeling that the quality of the forums has deteriorated (maybe it is me knowing more this days and finding the posts uninteresting) but still statistically the posts of real value have decreased (and I visit most of the forums) maybe people have gotten bored of getting half or cryptic answers have stopped posting (I still remember legendary posts that went for ever on various subjects in the past), also the fact that there are no definitive answers given from the "gurus" but only show of on lots of the forums really frustrates me. I mean do they know or they don't?
I also like the fact that paying creates a kind of "obligation" to help people like you said Tom. The reports make a difference as well here but I still feel knowledge should be accessible to all.
Keep up with your postings in the public forums it tells me that it worths paying to support you here in this private forum.
I would appreciate more posts from us members in this forum as well, some days postings are really low but we are few so maybe that explains it.
All I know is that we need to be humble, opened minded eager to learn and speak of our weaknesses and successes so we and others can learn from them in this hobby.

[quenton]

I have no problem with paying -- the few dollors (even converted to CDN) is well worth it. I subscribe to 2 forums (never mind which other one) -- it has a higher posting rate so I like that, but I really like the quality on barr. I too would prefer to see more posting, not sure why its low -- but if I see email from both my subscriptions, I know I want to go to this one first.

So just leave things as they are -- its not an issue -- at least not with me.

[jerime]

Well, I've seen this coming a long time ago - it's the human nature at it's worst.

Unfortunately whenever someone poses some competition to others, reactions like that, coupled with personal attacks are at hand.

I've seen some of this attacks on you when you decided to open thebarrreport, I've heard some non public stuff and as I said, it was quite expected.

When I started planted tanks few years ago, I read almost anything readable. You poped up real fast. I found you as the authority in this field and very soon there came only 2 guys I made myself read : you, and I must say roger miller from AB.

I followed your way. experimented as you did (as much as I could) and changed my views accordingly. Since I was 1 of few, soon many in my country changed their's.

You are really one of a kind, you stand out immediately and you influence others. Be proud of yourself and what you've achieved so far.

Don't let anyone discourage you. Keep up the exceptional work you do here, in your articles and other forums.

The price you take is nothing compared to what you give in return. Those who feel it's not, it's their loss, not yours.

Ignore and move forward.

Regards.

Eyal.

[Paul S]

Tom:

The fee that is being charged is very minimal when compared to the value of information that can be obtained from this site.
To put it into another perspective, if one were to take the monthly Barr reports and put them into book form, how much would that cost to buy?
Consultant fees in Toms field of expertise would probably cost US$50/hr. or so.
To get that kind of help for pennies in this forum is one of the best investments I have ever made.

Keep up the good work Tom and if you ever get your book started put me on the order list.

Paul S.

[Tom Barr]

Thanks for the input and support.

I'm ranting a bit here.

I just found it hypocritictal and ironic as I've had long discussions/rants with some Forum owners and their moderators about my personal ethics of charging for membership and access, yet they have public and private premium sections in their web sites.

Of course their own ethics are not questioned by the very folks like they judged me. If you hold some one to some standard, better sure as hold yourself to that same standand. I really try to do this myself.

I too believe strongly in freedom of information for the hobby.
But any author that sells a mag or a book can be labeled a "profiteer" under these folk's defintion.

A good in depth article/book on aquatic plants that brings new information to the table is very rare.

Some are nice and fuzzy, but often lack much substance and often end supporting more myths than resolving anything.

Then I spend time explaining that siestas, or heating cables etc are baloney......... and I do tend to play both sides of fence when arguing something and looking for support for one side or the other.

They offer little support for such equipment or methods.
I suppose that is okay if they actually work, but most of the time, they don't. and they do not support odf expalin it much often when something does work or not any better than something hair brained such as cables.
If they do, I'll say so and critique them.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[colonel]

I don't see where anyone else has the room to sit back and Judge you, or the services you provide for such a small fee. I feel that the forums are just an added bonus, what I am really paying for is the monthly articles, much like you would for any other suscription for a magazine. But where are you ever going to find such in depth articles on topics that No one else is willing to research and cover? your not, which is exactly why it is so worth it..... I dont see what the deal is, if others out there have a problem with it I personally think they should just keep it to them self and go out and offer the information that can be gained from this site for free, doing the research, editing it and posting it for all to view at no cost.

Suddenly they may see the enormous amount of work that goes into doing that and thier views may be changed about charging such a small fee each year for those who would like to have access to such information.... Keep up the good work Tom!

~Matt

[VaughnH]

I mortgaged my house and joined up here.......ok, so I didn't need the mortgage....but I joined here largely to get to read about CO2 mist, EI, CO2 reactors, and all of the other goodies I felt sure would follow. Most of the monthly articles are far more than I want to know, but at least I could read them if I wanted to. This forum is very good for discussing problems, reading others experience and trying to avoid the problems others report. I am perfectly content to have joined.

The other forums I read and comment on are primarily of interest because I can buy good plants cheaply there, or sell off my prunings instead of dumping them in the garbage. But, I do learn some things there, and enjoy trying to help others where my limited knowledge lets me. I pay for premium membership at one of the forums just to get the larger mailbox for when I buy or sell plants. That's pretty cheap too.

We are fortunate in this hobby to have the great forums we have, plus having Tom do our science for us, plus getting advice from him as we need it. Most of us would be plastic plants and algae growers without the contributions he makes.

[aquabillpers]

I think that there is more here about culturing aquatic plants, and fewer political debates (although a few of those can add some spice and educate) and less long-running discussions on the care and feeding of various needle valves and ballast arrangements.

I note that Tom continues to post to other sites, sharing his knowledge as he always has.

In the final analysis, the free market will make the decision about whether "free" or "pay" or both will survive. I bet on "both".

Bill