Fish illness, co-morbid infections, my fish need your help!

[ShadowMac]

I was able to complete the PP treatments to achieve the 4 hr mark, I examined the wood and could not find rotting spots. The wood was firm as I poked and prodded it with my tweezers and scissors. I could not visually see any worm like creatures underneath.

The condition has been worsening for the Rams. They are all over all of them, despite the PP treatments and 3 rounds of API General Cure (two this past week)

Interestingly it doesn't seem to have gotten worse for the cardinal tetras, although they still have parasites. The rams have them coiled within the gills, one has a couple under the skin behind its eye. Other locations include fins and randomly over the body. I feel awful for the poor critters, but do not know what to do

I'm finally feeling that drastic measures may be necessary...Quarantine, treat (with what?), and zap the tank with PP?

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

It may well be the infected fish cannot be saved. The good news is that the parasite probably cannot complete its life cycle.

I would definitely quarantine the infected fish. I’ll write a bit more on another round of treatments, but you are probably going to have to make a decision as to how viable the fish are.

Was that PP treatment with the wood in the tank? If so then it is not the wood. If the wood was out of the tank, doing a PP treatment in a bucket or other container will demonstrate one way or the other.

Biollante

[ShadowMac]

Thanks Bio,

Looks like my half-ass methods are not paying off. I'm okay with pulling the wood out and going full quarantine this weekend. I've had a house guest for a for the last couple weeks who has so rudely invaded my work space. My wife likes to call it the guest room. ppsssh...

I know it will be hard for you to NOT say "I told you so..." so I will forgive you if you do. The plan this weekend is to remove all living critters from the tank. I will quarantine any infected fish in one tank. If there are some who show no signs of illness, my ottos and the Daisy's rice fish, can I add them to another tank that has fish or should they be quarantined with the others? These two species have been surprisingly resilient to the infestation.

I await your guidance on how to treat the quarantined infected fish and the tank that will only have the "undesirables"

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

Until you know, the source of the organic material there really won’t be a fix.

I need to check something (actually with someone) before I give any advice on how to proceed.

My inclination is toward recommending a 10-ppm PP bath for your fish,
though if they are in a seriously weakened condition that could be fatal.

---

Believe me Shawn, woman is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man.¹

Biollante
¹Adjusted quote lifted from O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000)

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

I haven’t forgotten about you, I have been seeking some other opinions, unfortunately I need to find a smarter set of low friends in high places…

Any updates?

Biollante

[ShadowMac]

Hi Bio,

I have quarantined the rams in a 10 gallon and treated with a couple seachem meds. Paraguard and Aquazole (metrinidazole). I have been trying to get them to eat some of the aquazole by mixing it with some frozen brine and Seachem Focus to create a paste. They didn't go for it, but it was the first day in quarantine so they may not have felt brave enough to venture out and eat. I lost one, he was the weakest, lowest on the pecking order and malnourished. It wasn't unexpected. The others seem to be doing fine. They will remain in quarantine until they no longer are symptomatic ie no visual signs of an infestation.

Since the cardinals seem to have actually improved, no longer showing signs of new parasites, and they are so tough to catch without ripping up the tank I have decided to leave them there and treat the main tank with the Paraguard. A couple cardinals do have lateral line discoloration, the blue line "eroded" away in some places. Behaviorally they are doing really well, eating and active. I actually found a baby daisy rice fish in there last week. I thought all the eggs were getting eaten. I haven't seen the little guy since though.

It was unreal how bad it was getting for the rams. They had worms crawling on and out of them everywhere.

I was a fish keeper for years and didn't run into these things until I started doing the planted tanks. I saw ich and some other common easily diagnosed things, but never the crazy things I've seen with planted tanks.

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

Based on my experience and the feedback I have been able to get you are dealing with something you are not going to cure. The good news is the life cycle is broken and there is not much more going to happen. PP paste is about it for treating the wounds and perhaps killing the nasty’s.

There are aspects of planted tanks that are a little closer to high-density aquaculture than “normal” live fish keeping.

I used to say there is no such thing as too much filtration (biological anyway), I still believe that to be true in non-planted tanks and particularly in high-density aquaculture.

In the planted tank, there is competition for the same resources among various desirable and undesirable plants, fungus, bacteria primitive life forms. Things that create hospitable environments for plants and our desirable critters can easily go astray and provide a great environment for all kinds of other creatures, benign and malignant.

I suspect that is what happened here, the water column went from a relatively uninteresting solution to an organic stew, throw in stressed fish, whether stressed by illness, shipping or the organic stew itself it allowed a malignant life form to get a foothold, however introduced.

This has been an example of when things go bad, they go bad quickly.

Biollante