Fish illness, co-morbid infections, my fish need your help!

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

I need to know about the worms you find, where they are found, length, color (including the “-ish”), diameter (guesses or descriptive phrases are okay), again this is sounding like something that should be treatable.

High dissolved organic loads can make it difficult for some plants, the high DOC’s tend to favor primitive plants, though some mosses and ferns need clean water.

I do not know that high DOC makes getting CO₂ into solution that much harder, but it would make it harder to measure. Especially in weakly buffered water, the water will tend to acidify and since many of us measure CO₂ that way, it can fool us as well as stress critters.

The pH can get into ranges that may be harder for some plants (and critters) to handle. It gets complicated since the lower pH may make ammonia produced more available to the plants and less harmful to the critters.

The other problem is that this, especially in weakly buffered systems can turn into a cascade impairing or destroying the biological processes (filters and such) ability to cope with the organic material.

Biollante

[ShadowMac]

I've rethought the quarantine procedure and think it will be very difficult to implement, the near equivalent of taking down the tank ie removing all driftwood to get the inverts, relocating all fish, etc. I would prefer to treat the tank, if it can be done.

I'm assuming your plan once all critters and driftwood was removed was to dose on the high end of PP. Can I still get there with small critter safe increments?

I have more API general cure, enough for 2 rounds of dosings which is 4 doses over 8 days...I think.

If a positive outcome can't be achieved this way, let me know and I will do as you proposed.

[Htomassini]

Try prazipro from hikari. It's praziquantel and metro in a water soluble form.. Good for deworming.



Henry tomassini
www.theplantedaquariumstore.com
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

I agree with Henry and think I mentioned Praziquantel, which is the relevant active ingredient in API General Cure.

• I think if you have or can get Praziquantel it is a good choice to cure the infected fish.
  

I was under the (mistaken apparently) impression PraziPro is Oxybispropanol and <5% praziquantel by weight.
(Oxybispropanol is listed as an inert solubilizing agent, though I found it listed as EPA Pesticide Chemical Code 068604.)

Whereas API General Cure is the one with Metronidazole (an antibiotic), I am assuming that is the “metro” Henry is referring to.
(API General Cure is according to its label 80% table salt, 10% Metronidazole (an antibiotic), 5% Praziquantel and 5% silica amorphous.)
(API apparently uses table salt as its solubilizing agent.)

I think the underlying problem is the high DOC, as demonstrated by the PP treatments.

Yes, one option would be to remove the critters to a quarantine/hospital tank for treatment.

This would allow you to attempt something short of removing the driftwood.

I have to say realistically though, total pain though it may be the driftwood is going to have to come out and you are going to have to really go after it with a wire brush and screwdriver, knife, ice pick, whatever and anything that moves, wobbles or gives is going to have to be removed. After that disinfecting, the wood with PP or bleach will be required.

• The advantage in using PP is of course the visual confirmation of the disinfection.
  

Removing the wood will also allow you to treat the tank with whatever cure you choose including 5 or 10-ppm treatments with PP as an option. 30-minute treatments with 10-ppm PP are effective and reasonably safe. After 29-minutes the PP is neutralized using standard dose of dechlorinator, this can be done 5-days in a row.

Biollante

[ShadowMac]

I've spent 3 months getting mosses and bolbitus to grow over the wood...hygrophilia pinnatifida is growing great up one of the pieces. This prospect is disheartening....

[Biollante]

Hi,

Well can you try a careful examination of the wood?

Think of yourself as a dentist, ruthlessly picking at any loose or rotting material, you may just get lucky…

• The fact is the PP can take care of what the pick cannot.
  

Otherwise, chock this one up to the experience.

As I posted elsewhere, Oh, The Righteous Pain You Can Become… Perhaps Even Ol’ Gasbag Status!
Do not think of the work involved; think instead about the mileage you will get from this.

• Assuming it is the wood, this will be one of those lessons well learned and
• You can nag people for the next 50 years about the consequences of improper preparation of wood for aquariums.
• That is how I look at my misadventures, great opportunities to well and truly annoy people!

“The Crocodile's Toothache” by Shel Silverstein
The Crocodile
Went to the dentist
And sat down in the chair,
And the dentist said, "Now tell me, sir,
Why does it hurt and where?"
And the Crocodile said, "I'll tell you the truth,
I have a terrible ache in my tooth,"
And he opened his jaws so wide, so wide,
The the dentist, he climbed right inside,
And the dentist laughed, "Oh isn't this fun?"
As he pulled the teeth out, one by one.
And the Crocodile cried, "You're hurting me so!
Please put down your pliers and let me go."
But the dentist laughed with a Ho Ho Ho,
And he said, "I still have twelve to go-
Oops, that's the wrong one, I confess,
But what's one crocodile's tooth more or less?"
Then suddenly, the jaws went SNAP,
And the dentist was gone, right off the map,
And where he went one could only guess...
To North or South or East or West...
He left no forwarding address.
But what's one dentist, more or less?

Good luck,
Biollante

[ShadowMac]

Would the fact this problem existed, the wormy parasites, prior to the wood rule out the wood? Or are you thinking the excessive organics?

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

Hmmm…

No the fact the parasites existed prior to the wood is not good enough to rule the wood out, in fact it could be argued the wood rot is the stressor that brought them back in large enough numbers to be a noticeable problem.

However, it does raise a doubt…



Try this…
Before a water change

1. Pour 10-ml of distilled, bottled, filtered water in a glass beaker.
   
   1. The idea being clean water without chlorine or dechlorinators.
   
   
2. Draw 10-ml of aquarium water from beneath the surface and
3. Place it in a clean glass beaker.
4. The precise amount is not critical, I am calculating the drop= ¹∕₂₀-ml.
5. Place 1-drop of 1% PP solution in each beaker, swirl and cover, clean cloth will do.

The beaker with the distilled water is the control; the color should remain pretty much the same for at least 24-hours.

The beaker with the aquarium water is the test sample and the dose is approximately ^5mg∕_l the idea is to see how many drops are required to stay in the pink for 4-hours.

Biollante

[ShadowMac]

will PP react with plastics? I have several plastic test tubes with my test kit, could I use those?

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

Plastics are fine.

Mainly keeping organic materials (fingers) out of contact, rubber is bad, hard plastics are generally good.

Biollante