Fish illness, co-morbid infections, my fish need your help!

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

No, I think whatever is preventing you getting to the conclusion of the test is possibly an underlying cause.

Something is going on, the fact that you are getting farther in is an indication that it may be working.

Without going into too much detail, what you are accomplishing is first the oxidation of organic material this is also reducing the biological oxygen demand that is PP’s first job.

• As strange as it sounds, you could have dumped a great deal of PP in the tank and (with good aeration) not harmed any of the critters.
  
• This is actually, what gets many hobbyists in trouble,
  
  
  • it appears they can shortcut the process use a great deal more PP the next time.
    

What is critical with the parasites is that the tank gets to a point where there is a PP excess of at least 1.75-ppm. This is the point where the destruction of external parasites and if there are intermediate host, there possible destruction (depending on what and if they are).

• The colorimetric "feature" combined with your knowledge of the amount of PP applied allows you to know with certainty the conditions were met.
  

A couple of factors affect the efficiency of PP, higher alkalinity/ pH favor oxidation, lower pH favor the second stage, disinfection.

• That your pH is under 7, for that matter under 8 lowers the oxidation efficiency.
  
• Had I realized the extent of excess DOC, I would have recommended ceasing CO₂ injection and
  
  
  • would have recommended a little baking soda.
    

Hang in there, you are gaining what we call “experience.”

You are also setting conditions, which are favorable to the best opportunity success of the Fenbendazole treatment.

You are correct, you are going to prepare jello shots...

The fish can easily go 4-days without food.

Biollante

[ShadowMac]

When I have done the PP treatments I have ceased CO2 injection and lowered the lighting to reduce possible other stresses. I will continue with the purple tank...

[ShadowMac]

I think I did it...it was purple when I went to bed and figured I would leave it. Not quite four hours at that point, but i think it got there.

Here are some pictures of one current issue. It looks nastier than it has previously.







The one on the pectoral fin does look like it may have a round 'head" structure on one end. These two worms are MUCH bigger than what I see on the other fish. The other rams have very small hairlike worms that cause the area to have none of the pretty blue coloring.

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

Can you see if the worm is “coming through” the flesh or if it is “anchored?”

I think you should do one more PP treatment, especially if the worm is anchored.

Biollante

[ShadowMac]

the worm on the body with the hematoma seems to coming through the flesh, it previously appeared to be within the first couple layers of tissue. It is difficult to tell with the one on the pectoral fin...I will get a better look when I get home.

sorry for the poor quality photos, I'm not sure why they put cameras on phones if they take such awful pictures. I tried video but it wouldn't focus. I will try to get some better images.

The PP doesn't seem to have stopped its spread. A cardinal tetra has one within its eye and the eye filled with fluid. Although, the one on a dorsal fin of a tetra seems to have browned a little...might be dead.

More purple tank today, it seems.

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

The truth is the PP may not be the cure, but you need to be sure that you got 1.75-ppm above oxidizing level. Aerate but leave the CO₂ running.

If the worm is protruding all the way through the flesh, that is bad news, no way around it.

If it is “anchored” as, the photo suggests to me, with a bump or hematoma, ranging in color from say a white, greenish-white to red, worm-like tube structure, size ranging from very small to frighteningly large.
Then rather than Nematodes, they could be Anchor-worms, Lernaea, a Copepod rather than a worm, this would be great news.

• This is treatable and it happens PP is top of the list.
• This means the Fenbendazole treatments are not necessary and even a bad idea.
• You will probably want to get some Dimilin, diflubenzuron, I think API sells it as Dimilin, Jungle Labs has it as Anchor's Away and I know I am missing someone else.
• It also means poor water quality and stress are not likely to have been factors.

You probably need decent tweezers/forceps, soda water, Alka-Seltzer or clove oil handy to sedate your fish, lightly.

• You will soon learn why they call them Anchor-worms.

Biollante

[ShadowMac]

I have manually removed one in the past, tried to get a good look at it...but wasn't able to see anything to give me a clue as to what it could be. I have tomorrow off and have to get this project done this weekend as I'm out of town for a symposium the entire next week.

maybe I will just turn the CO2 up and see who bubbles up first just kidding...Do you have a time period for the alka-seltzer bath? That would be best with tank water perhaps? I will cross my fingers it is anchored and not protruding. PP treatment going now, first one of today. For a total so far its been:

Day one: 4 doses 36 ml PP 1ppm, water change
Day two: 2 doses PP, water change
Day three: 1 dose so far...

[ShadowMac]

what recourse would you suggest if I see critter stress, ie near the top in a corner?

[Biollante]

Hi Shawn,

I would consider removing the apparently stressed fish and taking a close look.

If you have some soda water or Alka-Seltzer putting the fish in a warm mixture of aquarium water and soda water until it relaxes, you only need light sedation, it can still be responsive.

Lay the critter on a warm towel soaked in aquarium water and see if you can remove a “worm.”

Have a past of PP and a little distilled water, after removing a worm dap some PP paste on the wound and rinse in warm water and place in a container of warm aquarium water.

Keep the container aerated.

It is best if you filter the aquarium water, a coffee filter will do.

Pictures would be good.

Biollante

[ShadowMac]

Biollante,

I regret to inform you that my camera is a total P.O.S. and I could not get it to focus for a closeup. You will have to rely upon my description. I could do drawings...

Referencing the pictures above. The worm in the side was protruding from the body and easily removed once I got a hold of it. It was 4-5 mm in length, white, and had a slightly fatter end...could be considered rounded maybe. I was unable to find or see the worm on the pectoral fin. It was difficult to pull the fin, get my fingers out of the way and look.

The soda water worked really well and that was much easier than the last time i removed one of those things.

Bad news is I pulled a second ram because it had one of the "pustules" filled with clear fluid and a worm in its abdomen near the anus. Removing it was much more difficult. There seemed to be a cavity filled with fluid in which it was housed. It was small and white, however I placed both specimens in distilled water to look at and this worm had a very long, 3 times the white portion, transparent/whitish body that progressively fattened. I do not know if I pulled the entire thing out since the end looks more like it broke off. The worm was in a curled position at the bottom of the small container. This worm was thinner than the other, however the white ends looked similar in shape.

I believe what I have is internal and another problem that is an external parasite.

The fish are in their recovery container, look sluggish and stressed but not breathing heavy nor swimming much. I applied the PP paste afterwards. The first time I did this without any advice I actually put neosporin over the wound.

Sorry I couldn't get pictures, I need to invest in a better camera. I was very close to spiking this one off the floor.

3 cardinal tetras are currently infected with another looking like it may be too. One has something attached to where the dorsal fin attaches to the body with a blood clot there. Another has discoloration in the tail anterior to the tail fins. Over time I have been able to see a curled worm like structure within. Another has one in or on the eye with a fluid filled pustule. I may have been able to see a worm within the gills of a cardinal tetra and a ram.

Should I be making some jello shots? I would rather treat as a sure precaution. Do I have 2 different parasites or could this be the same thing with different manifestations?

The external parasite is small and like a white hair 2-3 mm in length. I see them on the rams only. The area has no color. The worm is not curled but does curve or wind a bit.