Floutire Black Sand Cap

[Dutch]

This may have been covered before, apologies if so.

I'm redoing my tank and going with a DSM with a soil/clay MTS method (without the MTS).

From what I've read, the soil will mineralize during the DSM phase so I can skip the whole rinse and dry steps?

My question is for those of you who have used the Flourite Black Sand for capping is does this stuff blow around or is it heavy enough that the water flow does not disturb it? The problem I've had in the past is with substrate that is too light and gets disturbed easily by the water flow from the powerheads, etc.

I want to grow out an emersed hc carpet, and was wondering if I should use the Flourite black, or the Flourite Black sand. The sand seems to be the better for the fine roots the hc has.

I'd like some feedback before I go and spend $200 on substrate.

Your comments and feedback are very much appreciated.

[mike]

Hi Dutch,

I'm quite new at this and can't really comment but I'm very interested in your substraight, as I'm also in the process of setting up a 125G tank. I was also going to go with a DSM using 2 parts Flourite Black sand to 1 part Black Flourite but I was not sure what to put as the first layer of the substraight. How does the soil/clay work, is this what you’re talking about http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/su...mts-aaron.html

I was also thinking of putting some Scotts Osmocote (http://www.scotts.com/smg/templates/...20&id=cat50020), is it of any use?

I look forward to seeing your progress.

Mike

[Dutch]

Yes that link to the MTS article will start you in the right direction. After reading for the last few days on various forums, it appears that if you use the DSM (dry start method) with the MTS substrate, you do not have to rinse and wash it as the 8 week+ grow out period of DSM will mineralize the soil.

I'll let others chime in here that have more experience on this method.

As far as the Osmocote, you do not want the regular one, but the Osmocote Plus. I've read pros and cons on this, and again will let others chime in that have more experience using it.

For my tank, I'm going to throw down some dolomite and potash before dumping in the MTS mud mixture.

[Dutch]

On another note, how many people out there have used the Black Diamond Blasting sand as a cap?
I know this stuff has little or no CEC value as compared to the Flourite black sand. How important is it to have a cap that has CEC? Will this make a difference in carpet plants?
Since I plan on dosing EI with this tank in addition to the MTS factor, do I even need to worry over the CEC content of the cap?

And as my question on the Flourite sand, does the blasting sand blow around alot under decent water flow levels?

Thanks

[Jim Miller]

FBS is nice and fine and I like it much better for holding anything down. As for DSM vs MTS: my opinion is that they are equivalent but with MTS approach accelerating what will occur naturally in the DSM.

One caution is that I would wait 6 months or so before adding shrimp. They seem not to like the soil until it has well aged. You can add a few inexpensive "canary" shrimp I suppose to test the suitability.

good luck

jim

[Gilles]

I have used worm castings topped with Flourite Black Sand (without cover inbetween). Over the period of time the WC came through and the tank became very cloudy each time i replanted. Sure the black sand looks nice, but for (i think) almost the same amount of $$$ you have ADA AS, to which i switched 3 months ago. If you don't rinse the flourite black sand it gives off a light grey-ish cloud and leaves a fog like cloud on the substrate.

I have used a fine meshed fish net for rinsing so all the small stuff (e.g. dust, and 1/8 the size of a sand grain) fell out. I kept on rinsing until that was gone. My guess is that it reduced the bag weight by almost 10% (for each bag) . So if you are going to buy Flourite Black Sand, over-buy it since you will lose some of it by rinsing. And if you rinse as good as i did, it won't be affected by the flow of an MP40 on a 700 liter tank.

Point is, after 3 months of ADA AS, i am very happy i switched, but my problems where mainly caused by WC i think

[Dutch]

I would love to go with ADA AS, the problem is that with this size tank (155 gal), the substrate and shipping would be ~$500.
Trying to go a cheaper route, hence the DSM/MTS and cap.

I've read that if you place a mesh material over the MTS before capping that it helps keep the soil in place?

Curious, what's the life span of ADA AS? Does it break down over time and need replaced, or is it good for years and years?

Thanks for the feedback!

[Gilles]

Your welcome. I have not that much experience with ADA AS, but Tom has, and he claims that it goes for years. Where are you from? I only have Ada AS and yes it costed me also >300$ but thesame went for Flourite where i am at.

[Dutch]

Live in Kansas, the shipping on that stuff is well over $100.

The flourite I can get for around $19/ 15 pd bag from DrFostersSmith with free shipping.

I'm actually toying around with the idea of using the Black Diamond Blasting media and as I can get 150 pounds for $21. Seems a lot of people have used this.

[Gerryd]

Hi Dutch,

Are you certain about the cost of the ADA or how much you may need?

I ask as I used iirc 7 bags when Tom scaped my 220 with dims of 72x36, so was a large area. However, the depth was no more than 2"...I purchased 5 cases and was >500 with shipping iirc. So,how much do you think you need? One case = 3 x 9 liter bags.

I used < 2 bags to scape my 57gal but that is also fairly shallow depth..

I have used black flourite (not the sand) and liked it very much. I agree that rinsing it more is better. It does have dust and forms a cloud, but will settle fairly quickly. If you rinse a little more it will be worth the effort.