Starting new tank - codename Frankenstein - critique wanted

[Biollante]

2 x 2 ppm treatments done, not completed, but the color stayed in the reddish-dark orange spectrum rather than going aggressively brown.

Hi Florin,

Was this after a water change? If so, how long?

Did you mess with the substrate?

Biollante

[Florin Ilia]

Hi Bio,

I did a 60% water change yesterday. I didn't mess with the substrate - as meaningless as it may sound, I really wanted a pink tank, so I figured I'd see the pink first and then unleash the evil from the substrate.

I didn't see that pink, I wasn't that far though. I did another water change, about 50%, after the treatment today. I will deal with the substrate tomorrow.

BTW after yesterday's water change I didn't see dead shrimp

Florin

[Biollante]

Hi Florin,

No dead shrimp is always good news…

• Unless like me you like to toss a few on the grill as I will be doing in a few minutes.
  

Today being “Mother’s Day” I am tossing some vegetarians and some lovely shrimp, I raise on the grill for a bunch of Mothers in my life!

Not messing with the substrate is fine; I would be interested in the panel of tests on the aquarium water before the water change.

Perhaps even an ORP reading in a couple of locations in the sand, include nicest looking and nastiest...

Maybe even, let the water changes go a couple of more days and see what the tank is doing about it.

Might not hurt to see how the substrate handles the excess load, I have entire tanks where I depend primarily on sand and plants for handling wastes.

It is amazing how those plants grow and that gives you a great phytometric for tracking your tanks progress. Adding a little iron won’t hurt.

Biollante

[Florin Ilia]

Hi Bio,

I would be interested in the panel of tests on the aquarium water before the water change.

Perhaps even an ORP reading in a couple of locations in the sand, include nicest looking and nastiest...

Maybe even, let the water changes go a couple of more days and see what the tank is doing about it.

Might not hurt to see how the substrate handles the excess load

That's good to hear because I'm getting ready to leave on another trip abroad, from tomorrow to Friday (inclusive).

No changes until Saturday and tests before the change. I will set up a 4 beaker test right now and I'll do another one when I get back.

Adding a little iron won’t hurt.

I dumped 1/4 tsp of my trace mix in there.

Also, before I leave, I wanted to show you what my tank looks like, good parts and bad. I love how some of the anubias and bolbitis look, I would love to have the crinums on track as well.

Some notes:

• there is no artistic intent, please disregard the plant arrangement, unsightly diffuser, camera shake, reflections etc
• the copepods are back, hopping around on the glass; no hydras, planarians or leeches though
• all the stem plants are here just for testing purposes (live gauges)
  
  • the R. macrandra was planted when it was like 10 cm tall, severely stunted and ratty; you can see that it partly recovered in this tank
  • the Proserpinaca is new (since 6 days ago), the algae were not aquired here
• the Nimphaea micrantha is also here since 6 days ago
• still no dead shrimp after last water change, and they seem to enjoy the lower pH; I did not mention to them your canibalistic remarks

[Florin Ilia]

I will set up a 4 beaker test right now

As promised, I did set one up, with the smaller PP concentrations (4, 4, 8, 12 ppm). The result:



The reaction was instant.

Is this from the traces I put in? I find it hard to believe but if I ever see a pink test again, I will try to falsify this.

[Florin Ilia]

After 6 hours:

[Biollante]

Hi Florin,

I had a bit of computer meltdown and lost an absolutely brilliant post that explained everything, including the meaning of life… Just as well…

---

There was a reason I recommended “a little iron” rather than trace, oh well, we learned something, maybe…

Assuming and it is a big assumption, that your trace is the same stuff sold in Canada, you added approximately 2.7-ppm of organic Carbon to the water, and I would not think that alone should be so dramatic a change. (My absolutely brilliant post had a lot to say about this.)

Something else is going on.

When you get back, before a water change if you could test for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and temperature would be great. If you are up for it, KH and GH would be helpful as well. If you also measure ORP, TDS and DO at the red point, well that would just make my day.

I will try to recall my absolutely brilliant post and add to it and maybe even come up with a way to test some of this.

On the other hand, with your better third in charge for a few days things will likely be just fine when you return, problem solved!

Biollante

[Florin Ilia]

Hi Bio,

There was a reason I recommended “a little iron” rather than trace, oh well, we learned something, maybe…

Oops I picked the wrong time to "interpret" rather than "apply" your instructions

Assuming and it is a big assumption, that your trace is the same stuff sold in Canada

The assumption is correct, I bought the stuff online from Canada.

Many times I prefer to buy aquarium products from North America, which are not available here. Shipping can be expensive but the base price is usually lower than local products, so I don't bleed that much, and the advantage is that information about North American products is 10x more available online.

When you get back, before a water change if you could test for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and temperature would be great. If you are up for it, KH and GH would be helpful as well. If you also measure ORP, TDS and DO at the red point, well that would just make my day.

Sure, I'll do the whole battery of tests. If you agree, then I can "interpret" your testing instructions as follows:
1. set up a 4 beaker test
2. do the pH, NH_3/4, NO₂, NO₃, t, KH, GH, ORP, TDS and DO tests
3. do a Fe test (heck, maybe throw in PO₄ and K tests while I'm at it)
4. IF the 4 beakers are reasonably pink and IF the Fe test shows zero, then:
4.1. conclude that I have similar conditions to what I had before adding the trace mix
4.2. add AGAIN 1/4 tsp of trace
4.3. give it an hour to homogenize then do the 4 beaker test again, to see if the trace mix by itself can be responsible for the dramatic message that the PP is trying to send us
5. change 60% water

On the other hand, with your better third in charge for a few days things will likely be just fine when you return, problem solved!

Laugh all you want, but I did notice that the tanks I don't "tend to" seem to be healthier than the ones I manage... Now we also see that my wife in charge also gives better results... I hate to spot the common denominator here



Edit:
BREAKING NEWS, my business trip is postponed for early next week, so my plants will have to bear with me meanwhile.

[Biollante]

Hi Florin,

I should have been clear on the iron, looking at your pictures and video, iron was the only thing I could discern as being possibly lacking. Even then, it is chelated iron, but you would be adding less chelate, therefore less carbon. We learned something.

In my absolutely brilliant post, I was beginning to think about the whole “solubilizing” organic carbon to dissolved organic carbon (DOC), biological oxygen demand and so forth.

One of the things that I am having a problem getting my mind around is how quickly the iron falls out under normal circumstances, one of the reasons I suspect something with your tap water.

• For these purposes, PP is not probative, since the permanganate will oxidize the chelate so the metals will fall out anyway, and
  
  • the Potassium forms a precipitate with the iron hastening the process.

All the tests would be great! Actually, you can skip test #4, the trace addition.

Do you or have you noticed any “yeasty” smells?

What are feeding the critters and how much?

In the days of my misspent youth, I learned to fly airplanes, perhaps the hardest lesson I had to learn was that the airplane wanted to fly and could fly better than I could (stick and rudder no auto pilot days).

The day I got the aircraft in some unrecoverable (by me anyway) attitude my instructor screamed at me to let go of the yoke and get my feet off the rudder pedals. The sad (?!) lesson of my life, we didn’t crash, burn and die (CB&D), my instructor didn’t take over, the airplane returned us to straight and level flight.

Sometimes we make things harder than they need to be, having said that I am having a great time with your aquariums!

Biollante

[Florin Ilia]

Hi Bio,

I was planning to do the tests today but I got home just before midnight (just like yesterday) so I'll try again tomorrow.

The only useful adult in my family (hint: not me) did perform a 4 beaker test (4, 4, 8, 12 ppm), with this endpoint:


Waiting for the other tests here are some comments:

One of the things that I am having a problem getting my mind around is how quickly the iron falls out under normal circumstances

I know that I didn't convince you back then, but I still think that the extra-super-fine AC that I was using did remove Fe from water. If you recall I even did a test where I fertilized water with my trace mix, I passed it 10 times or so through a coffee filter filled with that AC, then measured Fe and it was gone.

I promise to make a new test and clearly document the process.

Do you or have you noticed any “yeasty” smells?

The only smell I ever noticed was when I removed the rotting Crinum bulbs from the water. I periodically give a good sniff to my tank but I never smelled anything else.

What are feeding the critters and how much?

I only have shrimp and snails (and copepods) in the tank at the moment and they get a small fragment of either algae pellet or earthworm pellet. The fragment is as small as I can break from the pellet with my fingers. They get it 3-5 times per week (they're supposed to be the cleaning crew, and it's not like this tank is sterile!!!)

Sometimes we make things harder than they need to be

Haha that's the perfect yin to my signature line's yang! Like I told you a while ago I live in fear there's a big
D-D-DOH!!!
in my future... But even so, the journey is worth it, I am also having a great time - if at some point I discover the [simple] cause for all this, I won't even confess, so we can keep going