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Thread: Amano Shrimp and Die Off

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Surprise, AZ
    Posts
    3,210

    Smile Fizz From CH3COOH Meaningful From H2O2, Not So Much

    Hi,

    Back to the rocks, the usual suspects here are rocks that fizz when vinegar is applied, the more vigorously the greater suspicion, it is simpler to simply exclude any rock that fizzes at all. Then comes soft rocks, so if you have a soft rock that fizzes, I would definitely not consider that rock for inclusion.


    Applying Hydrogen peroxide to rock that has been in the aquarium is not probative, since that is an indication of organic material, which can be a positive.
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    There is never a bad time for water changes…
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    If I was the betting sort of evil plant monster, I would pick copper was a toxin the cause. Copper can also be a reason for under-performing biological filters. With older plumbing there is always the possibility of lead as well.


    Of course, there can be a number of causes of buildup of organic material in aquariums and ammonia in particular, but ammonium as well can be lethal to invertebrates at very low levels. Particularly as the concentration of the concentration of hydroxide ions, OH increases after the CO2(g) is turned off.

    So keeping the tank clean and neat is important.
    *********************************************************************************** ************************************************** *******


    Not that I would ever wish to dispute Claus Christensen opinion (you dear reader know that is exactly what I am going to do).

    If for whatever reasons shrimp are growing too fast for their shells, I recommend seriously increasing the Calcium in the water.
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    Activated charcoal does not remove salts or tend to remove chelated metals.

    Chelated metals do not tend to harm our critters and are generally too large to be removed by absorption. So yes, CSM+B is just fine with activated charcoal.

    I am not sure about the hobbyist test kits, I suppose calibrated they would be okay.


    Biollante

    The first sign we don't know what we are doing is an obsession with numbers. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    Disclaimer: I am not trying to make you mad, it is just what I am, an evil plant monster, 'nuf said.

    • I believe the information I am giving is sound, I am not a veterinarian, professional chemist or particularly bright and certainly not a "Guru.".
    • I assume you are of legal age, competent and it is legal for you to acquire, possess and use any materials or perform any action in your in your jurisdiction.
    • When in doubt "don't."

  2. gsjmia, yes, I decided to cut back on my phosphate dosing and it appears to have had good results in preventing more cyanobacteria, but now the plants seem to be fading a bit. I will go back to the old dosing regimen and try cutting back the lights. I have a 4x54 W T5 HO light fixture. I keep two lights on for 10 hours and the other two on in the middle of the cycle for ~3 hours. I have a feeling that with the plant that I have in there, that it might be too much. I mostly have ferns, but there is also HC and Glosso. I do have a fair bit of hair algae that is growing on the ferns and the blyxa. I wonder if my management of light/plant growth is a large cause of the organic film buildup/dissolved organic/and overall poorer water quality.

    Biollante, I have tested for copper (API test kit) and neither the tap nor the tank water have copper. I mean, the copper test kit does not even turn a hint of color when I test. Also, Excel Fluorish does have trace amounts of copper, but that is not supposed to be enough to effect the shrimp.

    I've removed the soft rocks from the scape and will now really focus on water quality, try to cut back on lights and see what effect that has over the next few weeks. In the end, what you said earlier Biollante, what you said about tweaking the conditions to get better results should improve plant quality, and hence, water quality, and therefore lead to less shrimp deaths.

    I appreciate all of the suggestions and will take any more you might have.

  3. #23
    Just to clarify something that you said. You clean the filter in tap water? As in dechlorinated water ( Prime added ) out of the tap or as in bring the filter to the sink and rinse it straight out of the faucet?

    -
    S

  4. Yes, I have been washing the media with untreated tap water (i.e. running the media under the faucet).

  5. #25
    If you get through everyone else's advice, and still don't have a solution, I've got a "kitchen sink" method of diagnosis you could try:

    Amanos and cherries are pretty tough shrimp... it shouldn't be hard to set up an environment for them. a used 10 gal (cheap on CL if ya don't have one), set it up for quarentine with an air stone. Buy a few new cherries or amanos if you can, and then start slowly adding variables from your existing tank. Save things you suspect of heavy metal leeching for last. If adding anything kicks off the deaths after a few days, try removing everything else and see if the deaths stop. If you get through everything, and find your shrimp are all happy, try turning off your lights and CO2 in your main tank... see if the deaths still happen.
    - Dan

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Surprise, AZ
    Posts
    3,210

    Red face I seem To Offend Everyone With This Advice

    Hi,


    I will leave you in Dan’s capable hands, as I said when I started there are many possibilities since we are not their methodical as opposed to scatter-gun, “try this, try that” approach will tell you without guessing what worked or didn’t.


    My direct advice was simply to stop the bleeding, fixing the problem and knowing that you have not just “fixed” a symptom.


    Have fun.

    Biollante

    The first sign we don't know what we are doing is an obsession with numbers. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    Disclaimer: I am not trying to make you mad, it is just what I am, an evil plant monster, 'nuf said.

    • I believe the information I am giving is sound, I am not a veterinarian, professional chemist or particularly bright and certainly not a "Guru.".
    • I assume you are of legal age, competent and it is legal for you to acquire, possess and use any materials or perform any action in your in your jurisdiction.
    • When in doubt "don't."

  7. #27
    Nah Biollante, he should do your thing first; it's less work. My thing takes setting up a whole other tank, a month of messing around, and buying more shrimp; it's last-ditch anal retentiveness.
    - Dan

  8. OK, update. Two more shrimp deaths overnight. Still more alive and seemingly acting normal today.

    Purchased a Chemipure bag for the filter. Will wash filter media today (with tank water of course!) and place bag in there. Will also do a 50% water change today as well.

    Also, I managed to get 10 shrimp today. They're not Amanos, but they look like them. I think the LFS had them mislabeled. I will split them up into three batches. One I will acclimate with prime-treated tap water. One with Prime treated tap water with ferts to approximate the conditions in the tank. One I will acclimate with tank water. How long should I observe each batch? What should I look for in each one?

  9. #29
    First I'd say make sure you determine whether you got amanos, or similar-looking ghost shrimp. I'd put all 10 in a 10 gal tank, hold for a couple of weeks with the basics. After that, add one new element per week, starting with what you suspect most. You could also try a blackout on your main tank for 2-3 days, while turning off the CO2, just to completely rule that out. I've come to never trust saying "CO2 is okay" or "CO2 is not the issue" on any of my own tanks, so I can't advise anyone else to discount it until they've pushed to an extreme.
    - Dan

  10. OK guys, the plot thickens... I did a test based on Biollante and Philosophos' suggestions with three groups of Amano shrimp (I'm sure they're Amano, disregard my previous statement). I split 10 shrimp into 3 large glasses and acclimated these to different conditions discussed below. I occasionally agitate the water to get oxygen to the shrimp. I also placed a piece of Xmas moss in each one. As of this post, I have been acclimating for ~4 hours.

    Test group 1 (3 shrimp): Aquarium water. Result thus far: shrimp behaving normally, picking at algae on the moss

    Test group 2 (3 shrimp): Tap water treated with Prime. Result thus far: shrimp behaving normally, picking at algae on the moss

    Test group 3 (4 shrimp): Tap water treat with Prime, a tiny amount of each of the following: K2CO3, Flourish, KNO3. Result: ALL SHRIMP DEAD WITHIN 2 HOURS,

    OK, so to be certain I did not add too much K2CO3, I checked the pH and it is right around 7.0. The NO3 tests <5 ppm. So at the moment, it points to something in the ferts killing the shrimp.

    Now, here's another piece of evidence. I am an organic chemist, so rather than purchasing my chemicals from outside sources, I buy them from chemical suppliers (in large supply) that we use for the lab. That means the K2CO3, KH2PO4 and KNO3 from Fisher Chemicals. These are typically labeled as "for laboratory use only." I checked the KNO3 bottle, for example, and it says that it is "99.2%" pure. It does say Heavy Metals > 5.0 ppm, but who knows. Do I possibly have a contaminate in one of my ferts?

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