Help to confirm my EI dosage and Micro solution cloudy?

**oliverpool** · 09-06-2011, 12:53 PM

Hi all,

Hoping to confirm that my dosage is fine as this is the first time I am doing EI dosing.

I have a 26 litres tanks which I estimate is around 20 litres after sand and rocks just to be on the safe side. I have 2 filters running a Aquaclear 20 and a small canister filter thats rated for 20 gallons tanks. So plenty of filtration for my tank as I have a slightly high bioload of fishes.

2 x rummynose
5 x Galaxy
4 x Clown Killifish
1 x Oto

Plants includes 3/4 of the base covered with Java Ferns/Fissidens, 2 x Mini Nanas, 5 x Staurogyne sp, back of tank filled with dwarf hairgrass. I currently have 2 stems of hygrophilla floating as most of my plants are slow growing to ensure algae does not take hold of the tank. Some green spot algae and BGA which has since stop multiplying.

My dosage is Micro on Tues/Thurs/Sun, NPK on Monday/Wed/Fri, water change and rest day on Sat. I add around 0.125 teaspoon of equalibrium to keep my tank GH at around 3/4 as my tap water is rather soft. My target as a start is to get the PPM at around the middle of EI target and go from there.

My 8 weeks mixture for NPK consist of 44ml of Flourish Nitrogen (Not able to get KNO3 in my country), 64ml of Flourish Phosphate, 24ml of Brighty K purchased when I did not know better when I started). I will dose 5.5ml for each of the 1/3/5 dosage.

For Micro, 110ml of distilled water + 6 teaspoon of CaCO3, 1 teaspoon of MgSO4.7H2O + 6ml of floruish complete the 8 weeks solution. 5.1ml per day on 2/4/7.

Did I do my calculations correctly?

My Micro turns out very milky white. So 5.1ml dosage makes my whole tank cloudy and the fishes seems a little stressed. It clears up in about 10-15 mins though. Any other way around this cloudiness or did I make a mistake in my calculations?

Thanks!

**Biollante** · 09-06-2011, 06:22 PM

Hi,

The cloudiness is because Calcium carbonate and Epsom salts do not work and play well together.

I doubt it causes any harm to fish or plants.

Biollante

**nipat** · 09-06-2011, 06:36 PM

My calculation detail, in case someone notice what's wrong in it.

44 ml Flourish Nitrogen = 0.66 gram of N, 0.88 gram of K2O
64 ml Flourish Phosphate = 0.192 gram of P2O5, 0.128 gram of K2O
24 ml Brighty K = 1.632 gram of K

Translated to total millgrams of NO3, PO4, K.
Your 132 ml solution contains total 4914 mg of NO3, PO4, K.
NO3 2904 mg (59.1%)
PO4 257 mg (5.23%)
K 1753 mg (35.67%)

Dosing 5.5 ml (4.17% of the 132ml, so of the 4914) to your 20 litres yields
204.91 mg of NO3, PO4, K)

So these are what you get per dose:
NO3 6.05 PPM
PO4 0.54 PPM
K 3.65 PPM

That's OK. The PO4 seems a bit low.
But all my tanks always get too high PO4 with standard EI level.
So 0.54 PPM is also looking good for me.

The clouding, I think is from CaCO3. It's almost insoluble.
But I think you should have noticed it in the bottle already.
Not sure if it could stress the fish. They might be just frightened by the fog.

Also, CaCO3 raises KH, the iron gluconate in Flourish would probably participate.
I wouldn't mix it together in the same bottle.

You mix 6 ml Flourish into the 110 ml water and then dose 5.1 ml daily?
That seems too low for me. But if it works then it works.

**oliverpool** · 09-07-2011, 04:22 AM

Yupe I was doing a search and found that CaCO3 and Epsom Salts dont go together. Probably why with this combi my plants are still not really showing real signs of growth but still showing various deficiency.

I should get some K from my tap water and some from the water change where I add Equilibrium. So my K should be around 20ppm per week or so. I could boost it up somewhat when I get my dosage for my other ferts correct.

For the flourish solution, thats mainly for the trace and iron and somewhat base on Fertilator for iron for my tank size. What should the levels be for my tank? Base on seachem instructions, I could perhaps dose 0.8ml per week? My worry about this is with the added iron from Equalibrium and the 0.8ml of Flourish complete, my Iron dosage will be in the 0.18 to 0.2ppm. Is that way too high as 0.1 is the recommended value?

Any recommendation for a substitute for CaCO3 that can be mixed and dissolved well with flourish and MgSO4.7H2O in a single solution to simplify my micro dose?
:-p I thought I was done except to adjust the mix.....

Thanks Biollante & nipat for your help

Originally Posted by nipat

My calculation detail, in case someone notice what's wrong in it.

44 ml Flourish Nitrogen = 0.66 gram of N, 0.88 gram of K2O
64 ml Flourish Phosphate = 0.192 gram of P2O5, 0.128 gram of K2O
24 ml Brighty K = 1.632 gram of K

Translated to total millgrams of NO3, PO4, K.
Your 132 ml solution contains total 4914 mg of NO3, PO4, K.
NO3 2904 mg (59.1%)
PO4 257 mg (5.23%)
K 1753 mg (35.67%)

Dosing 5.5 ml (4.17% of the 132ml, so of the 4914) to your 20 litres yields
204.91 mg of NO3, PO4, K)

So these are what you get per dose:
NO3 6.05 PPM
PO4 0.54 PPM
K 3.65 PPM

That's OK. The PO4 seems a bit low.
But all my tanks always get too high PO4 with standard EI level.
So 0.54 PPM is also looking good for me.

The clouding, I think is from CaCO3. It's almost insoluble.
But I think you should have noticed it in the bottle already.
Not sure if it could stress the fish. They might be just frightened by the fog.

Also, CaCO3 raises KH, the iron gluconate in Flourish would probably participate.
I wouldn't mix it together in the same bottle.

You mix 6 ml Flourish into the 110 ml water and then dose 5.1 ml daily?
That seems too low for me. But if it works then it works.

**Biollante** · 09-07-2011, 06:35 AM

Hi,

While Calcium chloride is my favorite gypsum of plaster of Paris will serve your Calcium requirements well.

None of them are going to get along with the Epsom salt, actually it isn’t so much they do not work and play well together, I suppose you could say Calcium and Magnesium get on a little too well.

It is rather why most dose the Epsom salt with the micronutrients and the Calcium some other time.

I really cannot see that you should be having any nutrient deficiencies…

Even with the cloudiness the Calcium and Magnesium would still be available.

Do you mind sharing with us where you live? And how much and what kind of lighting are you using?

Yes you are overstocked, though from the plant point of view that should not be a problem.

Biollante

**nipat** · 09-08-2011, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by oliverpool

For the flourish solution, thats mainly for the trace and iron and somewhat base on Fertilator for iron for my tank size. What should the levels be for my tank? Base on seachem instructions, I could perhaps dose 0.8ml per week? My worry about this is with the added iron from Equalibrium and the 0.8ml of Flourish complete, my Iron dosage will be in the 0.18 to 0.2ppm. Is that way too high as 0.1 is the recommended value?

I based it on EI dosing instruction.
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...ss-techy-folks
The dosage of liquid trace elements there are based on using
Flourish (comprehensive) and Tropica's Plant Nutrition Liquid.
The TSP unit is for dosing dry CSM+B, BTW.
So for your 5-6 gallon tank it would be 1ml 3x a week.

Iron 0.18-0.2 PPM daily is quite high.
But Flourish has very high iron ratio compared to others.
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/traces.htm
(CSM+B in the chart was mixed using 3 grams to 250 ml
while EI is 12.5-25 grams to 500 ml)
If you dose using iron as proxy at 0.1 PPM, you may
lack in other nutrients.

And the iron in Flourish is gluconate, which is said to have
pretty short life in the tank compared to EDTA, DTPA.

However, I've seen beautiful tanks with incredibly low
trace elements dosing. And I read from another thread that
your substrate is ADA AS, already very rich in trace elements.

**oliverpool** · 09-08-2011, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by nipat

I based it on EI dosing instruction.
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...ss-techy-folks
The dosage of liquid trace elements there are based on using
Flourish (comprehensive) and Tropica's Plant Nutrition Liquid.
The TSP unit is for dosing dry CSM+B, BTW.
So for your 5-6 gallon tank it would be 1ml 3x a week.

Iron 0.18-0.2 PPM daily is quite high.
But Flourish has very high iron ratio compared to others.
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/traces.htm
(CSM+B in the chart was mixed using 3 grams to 250 ml
while EI is 12.5-25 grams to 500 ml)
If you dose using iron as proxy at 0.1 PPM, you may
lack in other nutrients.

And the iron in Flourish is gluconate, which is said to have
pretty short life in the tank compared to EDTA, DTPA.

However, I've seen beautiful tanks with incredibly low
trace elements dosing. And I read from another thread that
your substrate is ADA AS, already very rich in trace elements.

Ah... Did not see the "light" version for EI dosing. My flourish dosage was base on iron calculation to reach 0.1 each week. So my 0.18 dosage is a weekly not daily dosage. I guess I could ignore it and does 1ml 3 times a week and go from there. Maybe my trace are still light that's why 4 weeks of EI and I still believe my Plants are showing signs of deficiency.

I guess that's why seachem has a iron supplement as well? Is there a danger to fauna of high levels of iron over 0.2 ppm per week?

**Biollante** · 09-08-2011, 08:18 PM

Hi,

Is there a danger to fauna of high levels of iron over 0.2 ppm per week?

No.

Biollante

**Tom Barr** · 09-09-2011, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by oliverpool

I guess that's why seachem has a iron supplement as well? Is there a danger to fauna of high levels of iron over 0.2 ppm per week?

I add well over 0.5ppm 3x a week.

I've added 10ppm 3x a week.

**nipat** · 09-09-2011, 04:18 PM

Do I still need to say?

No.

I had added 0.25 PPM 7x a week for months.
No issue, fish, (Amano) shrimps.
I have reduced it now just because it makes water a bit yellow,
and it seems I can use less with same result, reducing cost.