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Thread: Is Eco-Complete inert substrate? How come?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Santo Domingo, Dominican Rep
    Posts
    187

    Is Eco-Complete inert substrate? How come?

    I've been paying a lot of money getting Eco-Complete locally. Keep in mind I'm used to pay more than usual cost of fishkeeping items since I live in a third world country (Dominican Republic). To give you an idea, a 20lbs bag of Eco-Complete cost me three times as much its on-line regular price. I usually add new Eco-Complete at the two year mark after it was introduced into a particular tank.

    I joined this site in August 2008 and became a lifetime member a month ago. I found a statement by Tom Barr that simply put is telling me I've been paying a lot of money for inert substrate.

    Tom's words "EC is inert hard sediment" Please see his reply in this threadhttp://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6262-When-to-change-ECO-Complete-planted-Substrate

    I feel like an idiot if that happens to be true. How come they advertise this substrate as nutrient rich if indeed it is not?

    Pepetj
    Santo Domingo

  2. #2
    Ask them, not me

    ADA Aqua Soil has nutrients, etc, and cost about the same.
    You can also do mineralization of clay loam soils you should be able to find locally, and do a layer of that + sand capping.
    Some used worm castings for the sediment base layer etc, search here and you should be able to locate the threads.

    I'm afraid you did pay a lot for inert sediment.
    Flourite is the same.

    Has the chemicals, but they are not biologically available in a meaningful way. Eg SiO2 is glass, but hardly a good source for O2.
    But you could say glass has Oxygen in it.



    Regards,
    Tom Barr

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    1,079

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=Tom Barr;58845]Ask them, not me

    ADA Aqua Soil has nutrients, etc, and cost about the same.
    You can also do mineralization of clay loam soils you should be able to find locally, and do a layer of that + sand capping.
    Some used worm castings for the sediment base layer etc, search here and you should be able to locate the threads.

    I'm afraid you did pay a lot for inert sediment.
    Flourite is the same.

    Has the chemicals, but they are not biologically available in a meaningful way. Eg SiO2 is glass, but hardly a good source for O2.
    But you could say glass has Oxygen in it.



    Regards,
    Tom Barr[/QUOTE

    Tom, please define meaningful when you say the nutrient's,chemicals, are not available biologically in any meaningful way from product, Eco- complete.
    I have heard other's express that contents may not be present at levels needed but it is unclear to me what or who determines at what those levels may be. Other's appear quite happy with the initial performance (myself included) of both Flourite and Eco -complete.
    I understand that trace minerals while not needed at same rate as macro nutrients, are still of benefit to plant's and that product Eco -complete contains mostly micro nutrient's and small amounts of macro nutrient's but it would seem that the company is flat out lying if as you say whatever content Macros.,micros, is not of any measurable benefit as opposed to plain pea gravel or sand for instance.
    Many thanks in advance for clarifying your posistion as to the usefulness or lack thereof of said products Eco -complete,Flourite.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    5,384
    Hi.

    I use black flourite for several reasons:

    1) It is attractive
    2) It is easy to use and does not cloud the water.
    3) It holds the plants well and is easy to plant in.

    I use EI to make up for any lack of nutrients.
    Thanks,

    Gerry.

    'When something's not right, it's wrong'. Bob Dylan

    Current 220 scape

    http://www.barrreport.com/album.php?albumid=34

  6. #6
    I have Eco Complete in my own tank,.. and a few weeks ago I decided to try putting in a root tab just in-case I'm not getting all the nutrients I needed for whatever reason from my EI and Substrate. I can not believe the massive increase in growth rate for my crypts especially,.. so much so in fact that I put even more down there for them, and these are not even particularly good root tabs (flourish something or other).

    It would seem that this plant prefers feeding from it's roots rather than the water,.. it would further seem that my Eco Complete was starving them.

    Whiskey

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Euless, TX
    Posts
    114
    I had always assumed when people said EC was inert, they simply meant it did not alter water chemistry, whereas, something like ADA AS alters pH, etc. How is EC's makeup different from ADA AS such that plants cannot make use of the nutrients?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Santo Domingo, Dominican Rep
    Posts
    187
    I'm thinking of solving this issue by mixing top soil substitute. It's supposed to be toxic free, mineralized, and enriched through organic means (earthworms' byproduct maybe?). I'm setting a 30"L x 18"W tank (Marineland 56gal column) for my wife. It is my first aquascape attempt from the start.

    Ignorance may be a bliss but to some but I rather know that I know the facts of what I'm dealing with. My frequent failures with Eleocharis sp are easy to understand now. Let's see how I do with really enriched substrate now. Since I now know EC is inert I see no problem mixing it with inert black gravel (cheaper yet aquarium safe). I like the looks of EC and money isn't exactly going to stop me from this. How can I put value on any of my tanks? Coming home after a hard day at office dealing with people's personal issues (I'm a Clinical Psychologist in private practice) to the silence of my planted tanks in the quiet of the night...

    Pepetj
    Santo Domingo

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=1077;58852]
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Barr View Post
    Ask them, not me

    ADA Aqua Soil has nutrients, etc, and cost about the same.
    You can also do mineralization of clay loam soils you should be able to find locally, and do a layer of that + sand capping.
    Some used worm castings for the sediment base layer etc, search here and you should be able to locate the threads.

    I'm afraid you did pay a lot for inert sediment.
    Flourite is the same.

    Has the chemicals, but they are not biologically available in a meaningful way. Eg SiO2 is glass, but hardly a good source for O2.
    But you could say glass has Oxygen in it.



    Regards,
    Tom Barr[/QUOTE

    Tom, please define meaningful when you say the nutrient's,chemicals, are not available biologically in any meaningful way from product, Eco- complete.
    I have heard other's express that contents may not be present at levels needed but it is unclear to me what or who determines at what those levels may be. Other's appear quite happy with the initial performance (myself included) of both Flourite and Eco -complete.
    I understand that trace minerals while not needed at same rate as macro nutrients, are still of benefit to plant's and that product Eco -complete contains mostly micro nutrient's and small amounts of macro nutrient's but it would seem that the company is flat out lying if as you say whatever content Macros.,micros, is not of any measurable benefit as opposed to plain pea gravel or sand for instance.
    Many thanks in advance for clarifying your posistion as to the usefulness or lack thereof of said products Eco -complete,Flourite.
    Easy, you add flourite or EC and nothing else.
    No water column ferts, see if you can grow plants.

    Sand also "grows" plants too BTW under your definition.

    There's more surface area, maybe a little CEC, but we already know the CEC for Flourite and things like SMS etc, which has a higher content than either EC or Flourite.
    But there's no N or P, not much really to add to the nutrient demands of plants.

    All you need to do is look it up.
    http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertil...ate-jamie.html

    Cat litter does pretty well.

    Chemical ananlysis vs feertility are very different things.

    In answer to your questions as far as who determines what ois said, no one really.
    No one polices these companies, they can say anything to sell the products for the most part.

    Look no further than to diet pills and the Billion's $$$ spent there and hardly any truth in labeling.
    If it kills people, FDA says it's bad for you, they might get involved, otherwise, it's pretty much hands off.

    Ask Amano what's in power sand sometime, hehe.

    If you are curious, do what Jamie did, or myself.
    Test it and then you'll know.




    Regards,
    Tom Barr

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey View Post
    I have Eco Complete in my own tank,.. and a few weeks ago I decided to try putting in a root tab just in-case I'm not getting all the nutrients I needed for whatever reason from my EI and Substrate. I can not believe the massive increase in growth rate for my crypts especially,.. so much so in fact that I put even more down there for them, and these are not even particularly good root tabs (flourish something or other).

    It would seem that this plant prefers feeding from it's roots rather than the water,.. it would further seem that my Eco Complete was starving them.

    Whiskey
    This is but one test you can do to see and answer the question.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr

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