Can flow be reduced during non-photo periods?

[pat w]

I've had some losses when adding new stock over the last few weeks. I've got a good amount of flow and the new stock seems to struggle somewhat the first day or so and then seems more able to cope with the new demands made by the increased current over their previous home. I'm not one to pass off on losses. Critters deserve better husbandry than that. I'd like to lower the flow in non-photo periods to give the guys a little more time to aclimate but I want to make sure I'm not risking the rest of the stock in the process. My plan is to place the Koralia 750 on the same timer as my CO2 or my lights.

Established stock seems to thrive otherwise.

Thoughts?

Pat

[Tom Barr]

Should not hurt, but perhaps the high CO2 was an issue, new home etc, you can try it or add different flow patterns.
As long as the O2 is good, CO2 not too high etc........the fish should be fine.

As is always the rule, fish come first, plants/algae come second.

If the fish where healthy to begin with, I have had no issues with the flow.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[pat w]

Thanks Tom,

I though I might have an O2 issue but I have plenty of surface ripple and the other stock is fine.

I had raised the CO2 earlier to battle a Rhizo outbreak. That issue could have been partially due to just an immature tank and I may be able to back down on the CO2 till I fully stock the tank.

Thanks again for the quick responce,
Pat

[Biollante]

Hi Pat,

Another trick, perhaps in addition to turning off the Koralia 750 with the lights is adding an air-pump and air-stone(s) or wand that comes on when the lights go off. Try this for a few months while the tank matures.

While I think this may be part of the critter loss situation, I suspect there is more to the story, if you do not mind sharing your situation, perhaps we can figure out what is going on. Your algae problem with high CO2 is an excellent clue.

The thing most of us are guilty of is lack of patients, when it comes to stocking. I am convinced the number one cause of critter deaths is ammonia, something totally in our power to control. People want to blame all kinds of other stuff (do not even bother with the nasty-grams). Next is critter choice.

I encourage everyone to keep even an informal journal, keep receipts and records of treatments, changes in tank conditions, and so forth.

Biollante

[pat w]

Ok, My first purchase was 8 Oto's (one death - replaced) followed a few weeks later by six SAE's (one death - not replaced) and 3 Nerite snails(one death - not replaced). This was the total population for some time while the Rhizo war was on. I then purchased the first 6 of the Platies (3 deaths - replaced - one additional death) The last addition was last Wednesday when I added 11 Neons and 3 Platies. (deaths 3 Neons and 1 Platy). All the deaths occur within 48 hours of introduction. After that the remaining stock is just fine. With the exception of the SAE's and Nirites the all purchases were from a local Pet Smart. BTW the Nerite death was an unfortunate encounter with the Rio 800.

If you think ammonia could be the problem, perhaps if I slightly over fed over the space of ... say two weeks ... and let the excess food and waste feed and grow the biofilter. Then make my next addition of about 10 Neons (I'd like to top them out at between 45 and 60).

Pat

[Biollante]

Hi Pat,

Given the deaths seem to be within the first 48 hours without a quarantine period it is hard to say whether it was poor stock selection (box store, Pet Smart qualifies this is most likely ) or poor introduction.

The fact that the Ottos have done well is a pretty good indicator of good water quality. The snail is one of those live and learn things.

Rhizo doesn't just happen, though just about anyone can induce it.

While I stand by what I said earlier I went back and refreshed my memory on your situation and while I still think something is feeding the Rhizo, though it strikes me (upside the head) as the Rhizo may just be stubbornly hanging on.

It may be time for you to try one of those shortcuts too which I usually object.

I think you have enough at risk to start a quarantine, sanitize or sterilize protocol.

Biollante

[Htomassini]

fyi, otos and sae's that have been sitting at a fish store usually dont fare well. They are often undernourished since they do not have a good "green" diet, and lfs will put algeacide in their tanks too, not taking into consideration the ottos and sae's. ive had a number of ottos and saes go, but the ones that make it are very hardy. You dont mention what the temp in your tank is or what are your parameters either. i do run air at night with the lights off btw.

[shoggoth43]

Also bear in mind that ottos are fairly dumb. Any source of current they will attempt to swim against/into. That sometimes includes impellers and tap water hoses. In general though, fish from petco are usually in pretty bad shape. Petsmart is usually a little better, but you're much better off quarantining all new additions in general.

-
S

[pat w]

Hi Pat,

Given the deaths seem to be within the first 48 hours without a quarantine period it is hard to say whether it was poor stock selection (box store, Pet Smart qualifies this is most likely ) or poor introduction.

The fact that the Ottos have done well is a pretty good indicator of good water quality. The snail is one of those live and learn things.

Rhizo doesn't just happen, though just about anyone can induce it.

While I stand by what I said earlier I went back and refreshed my memory on your situation and while I still think something is feeding the Rhizo, though it strikes me (upside the head) as the Rhizo may just be stubbornly hanging on.

It may be time for you to try one of those shortcuts too which I usually object.

I think you have enough at risk to start a quarantine, sanitize or sterilize protocol.

Biollante

I should have been clearer on the Rhizo front. I won, sort of, some few masses still remain mostly at the base of a rather thick stand of HM and elsewhere, but all are in retreat. I waited till I had the upper hand before I ordered the Starougyne from Tom.

Intro as follows
- Float 20 min.
- add 1/2 cup from tank float 20 min
- add 1/2 cup from tank float 20 min
- add 1/2 cup from tank float 20 min
- add 1/2 cup from tank float 20 min
- Intro

Still have the Potassium Permanginate that I have yet to use if that's one of the shortcuts you have in mind.

fyi, otos and sae's that have been sitting at a fish store usually dont fare well. They are often undernourished since they do not have a good "green" diet, and lfs will put algeacide in their tanks too, not taking into consideration the ottos and sae's. ive had a number of ottos and saes go, but the ones that make it are very hardy. You dont mention what the temp in your tank is or what are your parameters either. i do run air at night with the lights off btw.

Temp 76F
Ammonia - Api test reads same as distilled water although both show a slight positive.
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - ??? I'll check and get back to you.
Dosing - 75g CaCl2, 1 rnd tsp epsom salt , 6 lvl tsp Sodium Bicarb, 1 lvl tsp GHbooster at water change;
- 3.89 ppm NO3, 2.68 ppm K, 0.55 PO4, 0.16 ppm Fe daily autodose
2 -canisters @ 160 gph with a total of 2 liters of Seachem Matrix

I'm feeding standard flake and flake Spirulina and will soon get some frozen food and a veg clip for blanched veggies from PS

Also bear in mind that ottos are fairly dumb. Any source of current they will attempt to swim against/into. That sometimes includes impellers and tap water hoses. In general though, fish from petco are usually in pretty bad shape. Petsmart is usually a little better, but you're much better off quarantining all new additions in general.

-
S

Yeah, the Oto's and SAE's are entertaining during a WC.


To All,
No quarantine capacity at present, will see as funds permit.

Thanks to all,
Pat

[BigFlusher]

Whooboy -another quarantine doesn't have to be expensive rant coming

will people never learn

Joe