Wet's EI modeling dosing calculator

[Biollante]

Hi Florin,

Wet’s right!

When you copy and paste you no longer are “Forbidden.”

You get:
http://calc.petalphile.com/api/compounds.json:
[{"K":0.3867,"name":"KNO3","N":0.138539,"sol":360," tsp":5200,"NO3":0.6133,"target":"NO3"},{"K":0.4489 63656,"name":"K2HPO4","sol":1492,"P":0.177837745," tsp":5800,"target":"PO4","PO4":0.545271861},{"K":0 .2873,"name":"KH2PO4","sol":220,"P":0.227605,"tsp" :5600,"target":"PO4","PO4":0.6979},{"K":0.552596," name":"K3PO4","sol":900,"P":0.145925,"tsp":6000,"t arget":"PO4","PO4":0.447416},{"K":0.524447,"name": "KCl","sol":344,"tsp":4500,"target":"K","Cl":0.184 01},{"K":0.448736,"name":"K2SO4","sol":120,"tsp":6 400,"target":"K","S":0.18401},{"K":0.195,"name":"S eachem Equilibrium","Mn":0.0006,"Mg":0.0241,"dGH":0.01677 70949,"tsp":5333,"target":"K","Ca":0.0806,"Fe":0.0 011},{"name":"CaCl2.2H2O","sol":745,"dGH":0.038075 5461,"tsp":3600,"target":"Ca","Ca":0.2726209101421 67,"Cl":0.482320930548942},{"name":"CaSO4.1/2H2O","sol":2.1,"dGH":0.0411156606,"tsp":3100,"tar get":"Ca","S":0.235536947260173,"Ca":0.29438812986 6314},{"name":"CaSO4.2H2O","sol":2.4,"dGH":0.03251 13901,"tsp":3100,"target":"Ca","S":0.1862461520590 11,"Ca":0.232781553116106},{"name":"CaMg(CO3)2","d KH":0.0608317757,"Mg":0.1318,"dGH":0.0605379888,"t sp":14150,"target":"Ca","Ca":0.2173},{"name":"Ca(N O3)2.4H2O","sol":121,"dGH":0.0237030956,"tsp":1252 0,"NO3":0.525089985,"target":"Ca","Ca":0.169714164 72581},{"name":"5Ca(NO3)2.NH4NO3.10H2O","sol":271, "dGH":0.025899419,"tsp":9480,"target":"Ca","Ca":0. 185439840091799,"N as NH4 and NO3":0.155544039532861},{"name":"MgSO4.7H2O","Mg": 0.0986124,"sol":710,"dGH":0.0225871978,"tsp":5100, "target":"Mg","S":0.130101},{"name":"Mg(NO3)2.6H2O ","N":0.109258,"Mg":0.0947932,"sol":1250,"dGH":0.0 217124089,"tsp":7320,"NO3":0.483650546,"target":"N O3"},{"K":0.233,"name":"AF's MacroMicro Mix","Mn":0.00383,"Mo":0.000102,"N":0.0343,"Mg":0. 0268,"tsp":5250,"Cu":0.000184,"NO3":0.152,"target" :"NO3","S":0.0877,"Zn":0.000758,"Fe":0.0134},{"nam e":"PlantedTanksUK Trace","Mn":0.0182,"Mo":0.0015,"B":0.0105,"tsp":60 00,"Cu":0.0023,"target":"Fe","Zn":0.0116,"Fe":0.08 4},{"name":"Plantex CSM+B","Mn":0.0187,"B":0.0118,"Mo":0.0005,"Mg":0.0 14,"dGH":0.00320670391,"tsp":4300,"Cu":0.0009,"tar get":"Fe","Zn":0.0037,"Fe":0.0653},{"name":"Miller 's MicroPlex","Co":0.0005,"Mn":0.04,"B":0.005,"Mo":0. 001,"Mg":0.0543,"dGH":0.0124374302,"tsp":3720,"Cu" :0.015,"target":"Fe","Zn":0.014,"Fe":0.04,"Mb":0.0 01},{"name":"Plant-Prod Chelated","Mn":0.02,"Fe as DTPA":0.02,"Fe as EDTA":0.05,"tsp":4480,"Cu":0.001,"target":"Fe","Zn ":0.004,"Fe":0.07},{"name":"Dutch Nutrient Formula","Mn":0.02,"Mo":0.006,"B":0.013,"tsp":3600 ,"Cu":0.001,"target":"Fe","Zn":0.004,"Fe":0.07},{" name":"Rexolin APN","Mn":0.024,"B":0.011,"Mo":0.0025,"tsp":3300," Cu":0.0025,"target":"Fe","Zn":0.013,"Fe":0.06},{"K ":0.0963,"name":"Rexolin BRA","Mn":0.0248,"B":0.021,"Mg":0.0086,"sol":200," tsp":3500,"Cu":0.0036,"target":"Fe","S":0.0128,"Zn ":0.0338,"Fe":0.0266},{"name":"Fe Gluconate (12.46%)","tsp":2440,"target":"Fe","Fe":0.1246},{" name":"DTPA Fe (11%)","tsp":3870,"target":"Fe","Fe":0.11},{"name" :"DTPA Fe (10%)","tsp":4290,"target":"Fe","Fe":0.1},{"name": "EDTA Fe (13%)","sol":90,"tsp":5100,"target":"Fe","Fe":0.13 },{"name":"EDDHA Fe (6%)","tsp":2420,"target":"Fe","Fe":0.06},{"name": "MnSO4.H2O","Mn":0.325038456987339,"sol":393,"tsp" :7490,"target":"Mn","S":0.18971719323157}]

http://calc.petalphile.com/api/commercial_products.json

AND

http://calc.petalphile.com/api/resources.json
{"Resources":{"Dry":"calc.petalphile.com/api/compounds.json","Dosing_methods":"calc.petalphile. com/api/dosing_methods.json","Premixed":"calc.petalphile.c om/api/commercial_products.json","Git":"github.com/flores/yet-another-nutrient-calculator.git"},"Last_updated":1327796147}

Biollante

[Florin Ilia]

I concur

[Wet]

You have all contributed so much to the calculator I'm sorry that it gets nerdy sometimes. I still hold out hope that a developer will come along and pick up this work and bring new ideas using the data sets and the work already done.

tmaciak has contributed Polish and we've had an interesting discussion via PM. I asked we move it to this thread for other folks with similar concerns, and because tmaciak has found some bugs and confusing bits.

Hi,

Yes, I expect that popularity of calculator can grow, I have put a topic on few Polish forums specializing in planted tanks and on one quite a discussion has started:

http://forum.roslinyakwariowe.pl/viewtopic.php?p=279842 (you will be seeing only few first post without registration)
http://www.holenderskie.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30843
http://aquarist.pl/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=3378 (not visible at all without registration )

During doing small manual for my post on holenderskie.pl I found error, which probably is replicable, but I can not repeat replication steps at the moment - seems that it depends on sequence of changing dosing methods, see results on screen -> http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8287/yet1.png - should be 40.763 g KNO3 not 122g - probably in some cases some variables are not properly cleared and calculator uses "mixed" input before and after dosing methods change.

I think this may have been my fault from pushing new code and recklessly restarting the servers, which can cause some weirdness. You haven't seen this since we did some work a few days ago?

One of users of roslinyakwariowe.pl found small discrepancy of recommendation for EI classic and EI daily:

Doszukuję się tu jakiejś nieścisłości (mowa o działaniu aplikacji) pomiędzy "EI" a "EI dozowane codziennie".
Wprowadzam 300 litrów pojemności zbiornika, DIY, dozuję KNO3, wyliczam dozowanie dla EI.
Aplikacja podaje 7,5 ppm NO3. Z Twoich słów (w ślad za Barrem), których cytat powyżej, wynika, że to wartość pojedynczej dawki. Zatem tygodniowo:
7,5 ppm NO3 * 3 = 22,5 ppm.

Z kolei, kiedy wyliczam to samo, ale dla EI w dozowaniu codziennym, aplikacja podaje: 4,5 ppm NO3. Tygodniowo to będzie:
4,5 ppm NO3 *7 = 31,5 ppm.

Poor Google Translate translation (a little edited ):

Here he is some inaccuracy (application operation) between the "EI" and "EI dosed every day."
I make 300 liters of tank capacity, DIY, dosing KNO3, I calculate the dosage for EI.
The application gives 7.5 ppm NO3. With your words (as per Barr), the quote above, it follows that the value of a single dose. So a week:
7.5 ppm NO 3 * 3 = 22.5 ppm.

In turn, when I calculate the same thing, but for EI daily dosing, the application shall state: 4.5 ppm NO3. This week will be:
4.5 ppm NO3 * 7 = 31.5 ppm.

Probably daily EI recommendations were not adjusted after last Tom's comments, maybe you should discuss it with him?

Yes, this is my fault! We changed the EI baselines, as you know, recently based on Tom's current dosing. I've scaled EI daily now to reflect this.

I have translated update of recommendation for EI dosing.

To be honest I expanded your text during translation to: "Kalkulacja pojedynczej dawki dla metody EI. Powyższą dawkę należy dozować 2-4 razy tygodniowo w zależności od zapotrzebowania roślin." which literally means: "Calculation of a single dose for the EI method. This dose should be dosed 2-4 times per week, depending on the needs of plants."

[/quote]
This was a good miss. Picking "The Estimative Index" now states it should be dosed 2-4 times a week.

One more question, do you have some short instruction how to calculate data needed for calculator for new fertilizer?

For example, I would like to add this fertilizer: http://www.intermag.pl/pl,0,s330,pro...iny-wodne.html and producer gives composition of this fertilizer in percents. The same is for this fertilizer: http://www.intermag.pl/pl,0,s330,pro...ikro-plus.html (which is Polish equivalent of CSM+B for EI users).

I do not have any documentation, but you'll find these constants here: https://github.com/flores/yet-anothe...ster/constants Notice they are just formatted files, and the description at the top of the file. Here's the one for liquids:
https://github.com/flores/yet-anothe...l_products.yml

I can add these new ones if this is confusing, and follow up with some documentation!

Thanks for your contributions. We broke 400 unique users the day you announced on various Polish forums.

[tmaciak]

I think this may have been my fault from pushing new code and recklessly restarting the servers, which can cause some weirdness. You haven't seen this since we did some work a few days ago?

I have not be able to replicate problem, maybe it was some not permanent problem with script as you wrote. If I replicate problem, I'll let you know

[Wet]

Hey tmaciak. I added those fertilizers. Here's that commit as an example for anyone thinking about adding any other stuff:

http://git.io/FG0EHA

Thanks!

[tmaciak]

O, thanks I added also one another micro fertilizer, it is older version of "Mikro Plus", which is still in use (although it is not manufactured any more, a lot of people have quite a stock of this fertilizer).

I also made attempt to add Mikro and Mikro Plus as compounds - those fertilizers are quite concentrated so usually are used as weaker solution. Unfortunately, it seems that at the moment calculator barely supports compound which is not dry salt, so please review if my commit is sensible

[Wet]

It looks good, but you only need to edit commercial_products.yml for premixed stuff. (I excluded the commit to compounds.yml, and your changes are now live.)

It doesn't look all that concentrated compared to many DIY solutions, though certainly higher than American fertilizers. You're looking for a way to calculate the dilution of a premixed fertilizer, similar to one of our earlier PM exchanges? I could whip up something quick like http://glut.petalphile.com if this is a popular request. Maybe it just lets you enter the concentration of some premixed fertilizer and asks what volume you want to dose for which target. Then it figures out how to dilute the premixed fertilizer. We wire it for translation.

I am having trouble imagining how I would add the dilution feature to http://calc.petalphile.com. This is why I am thinking of a new calculator. Non-planted folks could use it for fishless cycling with ammonia solutions and stuff, too.

(I still need to get around to translating the EI calc!)

Thanks Tomek!

[tmaciak]

As I wrote in e-mail, I understand your approach, but as Mikro and Mikro Plus are are aimed at agricultural market due to it's concentration should be dosed to aquarium in very small amounts, so people tends to made a weaker solution, concentrated more or less like Floramix.

I don't think that adding separate calculator just for that is necessary, if somebody uses diluted Mikro or Mikro Plus can just multiply results by dilution ratio (and I wrote so on Polish forums when I informed about last change).

But if you will be considering some changes in calculator IMO it would be worth to consider possibility to use liquids as compounds.

EDIT:

I found small problem with calculation for such concentrated fertilizer.

As I understand, while calculating "what dose to reach a target" for premixed fertilizers, you round result to 1ml. In normal circumstances it is not a problem, but for eg. "Mikro" and 100L tank, to reach 0,5ppm result is 3ml but should be 3,33ml (what can be verified calculating for "the result of my dose"). Not a big deal, but worth to consider when calculating strongly concentrated stuff for small tanks

[Wet]

Yeah, great use case. I've got some ideas and found something new I can use for other things as an excuse to play with this. In the pipeline.

I'm not going to adjust the rounding to 1mL for commercial products just yet, because I think it's just going to make things more confusing/complicated for *most* folks using commercial products.

[Tom Barr]

New items to add if you are so inclined:

GH booster -> amounts of SO4, Ca, Mg, K+ from X amount of GH booster(standardized as 2 parts K2SO4, 1 part MgSO4 and 1 part CaSO4 by weight)

Acids to remove KH: H3PO4(30%), HCL(30%) pool acid, Vinegar distilled 5% as acetic acid. Not sure if you can come up with how much to add to lower KH, but these 3 are the most commonly used acids for this purpose.