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Thread: Co2 in a large tank, 300 gallon along with all sorts of other newbie issues

  1. #71
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    Horizontal bop will NOT work for a counter flow reactor. Must be vertical
    Thanks,

    Gerry.

    'When something's not right, it's wrong'. Bob Dylan

    Current 220 scape

    http://www.barrreport.com/album.php?albumid=34

  2. Quote Originally Posted by easttech View Post
    Attachment 4484

    Tom, would appreciate your feedback before I glue this and it becomes permanent. Hard to believe but my neighbor has some connections on some big clear pipe. I should have either tomorrow or tjhe next day a 4" by 24" clear. May be hard to sort out from the pictures but I believe you have built enough of these to understand what I am doing. Unlike yourBig Kahuna I could not fit one pipe inside another to get the counter flow, so what I was planning, not sure it is obvious from the picture is to come in on the 5/8" braided hose side from my NW pump, this 5/8 pipe will be positioned on the outside of the 2' pipe which will serve as the outlet. You had yours inside of eachother. Will my plan work as described? Better to know now before I glue it. Formum has been quiet I assume everyone is enjoying their nice long weekend. Spent mine building this damn thing.
    Ok, I bit the bullet and glued it. Stiil have an out in the one end, the input end is screwed in, so I have some access. Tom when you get a minute check and see if what I have for counter flow will work and also the reactors has been installed and I cannot seem to get it to fill up entirely. It is currently installed horizontally with a slight bit off level in favor of the input side. I have tried pinching the output, but still will not fill up, seems to only force the input to slow down. I have not yet installed a relief and was going to do that with simple airline hose glued and sealed into the high side of the reactor and run that back to the input side of my NW pump. just does not seem like there is enough umph from the NW pump to file the reactor.
    So 3 things;
    1) Will my counter flow design work?
    2) Horizontal position ok?
    4) Relief required to get it to fill? Other suggestions to get it to fill? is the relief in general required?

    Thanks again,[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerryd View Post
    Horizontal bop will NOT work for a counter flow reactor. Must be vertical
    Ok, good to know, how about the relief?

  3. #73
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    sorry. I am at work and your question is a bit too detailed right now.
    Thanks,

    Gerry.

    'When something's not right, it's wrong'. Bob Dylan

    Current 220 scape

    http://www.barrreport.com/album.php?albumid=34

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Tom Barr View Post
    All this says is the well water has some CO2, maybe 10 ppm or so.
    Do not worry about the pH of the tap.



    For now, target about 6.4 for a pH and keep it there. It really should never go below this, so if it takes 1-2 hours to come down to 6.4, that's fine.
    Gerry addressed the CO2 issue in the prior post, re read that.

    Do not even bother using the Drop checker, use the pH meter instead.
    Keep a close eye on it throughout the day and see where you are as far as a relative pH target, say 6.5 to 6.4 range.
    This is where you want to be.

    I'd use about 300-500 gph pump for the filter housing reactor, The 4x20" size will remove all the bubbles easily, this will improve water clarity.

    You might consider adding a Pur flow canister filter , a two tier stack with a single 75-100 sf Ft 20 micron cartridge right after the sump. I think those are 1.5" in/outlet ports.
    GH/KH sound fine.

    If you wanted to soften the water, I think a vinegar drip in the holding reservoir for warming the tap might work well.
    Vinegar will destroy KH, is cheap and will break down fairly easily. Dosing pump added and then at least 2-4 hours to mix. Then it can be slowly added for replacement tank water.
    Cheap and fairly safe.

    So:

    Dosing pumps(you'll need 3)
    Cartridge 4 x 20 " clear filter housing and about 18" long pipe for the "out" on the inside of the filter.
    A larger CO2 reactor pump
    20lb tanks(get 2 of them).
    A pair of 5 gallon buckets with lids for dosing fert reservoirs.

    Cartridge filter? Up to you.
    I'd likely not mess with it, the filter socks should do the job there.

    Vinegar softening? Again, up to you, a KH of 4.5 is fine and dandy for 99% of any goal you might possibly have.
    I'd not mess with it.

    I'd not use the pH control function, I'd just watch with a calibrated pH meter and watch carefully.






    On to the co2. I currently have a sump which is about 20' away and downstairs in my basement, using overflows in each corner of my tank. I have a Americn Marine Regulator w/needle valve, a Aqua Medic 1000 Co2 reactor, bubble counter , drop checker and a 5 lb tank. What I am trying to figure out is what should be my bps/bpm count be, at that rate how long will my tank last, should I get a bigger one? I am currently, (only 1 day into having the whole setup) at 3bps, I cannot get my ph to drop at all, and no sign of any change on my drop checker. I have lowered my returns into the sump to reduce splashing, I put covers on the sump. I currently have the reactor in my return section of the sump along with my UV. The pump supplying the reactor is a 200 gph.

    The tank was cycled with some larger fish for 3 weeks along with some cycling product for which I cant remember the name along with a large piece of sponge from my LFS which I placed in the sump. Btw, I am not running a wet dry sump. I have return feeds at both ends, as low as I can get them to reduce splashing, feeds into 4 100 micron socks 2 on each end that are submersed in water and bio balls, feed through sponges into the return chamber. I digitally monitor ph in both the sump and tank. I currently have the c02 on a timer for daytime use only and not sure if I wil use the ph control feature on my Apex, I wanted to get the hang of this manually first. I have an assortment of swords and other plants currently in the 25-30 count, nothing crazy at the moment. I have a bunch of Otto's, Amano's, few corys and clown loaches that somehow are able to survive my high ph.

    More detailed water conditions of my tank are; 8.3ph, with a GH of 180 ppm and KH of 80 ppm, Nitrates go between 5-20 ppm, given all my water changes it remains pretty low. I was thinking of adding a non salt method of water softening to my tap. Suggestions and advice on that as well.

    Advice and suggestions welcome.
    [/QUOTE]

    Tom,

    Do you have a suggestion on the brand of dosing pumps? I think there are some that can does more than one liquid, suggestions? I assume you are thinking I would use dry ferts and add liquid and top off dosing pumps?

    In another post I had mentioned that my drop checker currentl is a nice green, my ph is 6.9 and kh of 6 which on the chart also appears to be in the zone. With my current ph problem going back to 8.2 every night after co2 is off I am hesitant to push for more than a 1.3 ph swing each night. i think I can push the co2 harder if needed. thoughts?

    Lastly on my reactor design not sure my counter flow design is correct. I posted some pics as well. Per gerry I installed in vertically, it3 a 4" pvc that is about 43" long. I have the feed from the NW going in at the top via a 5/8 ID hose, it travels down into the reactor about 24", I can see all the tiny bubbles exiting this hose then gently rising up about 15" to the top of the 2" outflow pipe. The water level will not go above that pipe. Shoould I install a relief and feed that back into the NW pump? Will that help to fill it? is beling filled required?

    Thanks!

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by easttech View Post

    Tom,

    Do you have a suggestion on the brand of dosing pumps? I think there are some that can does more than one liquid, suggestions? I assume you are thinking I would use dry ferts and add liquid and top off dosing pumps?

    Thanks!
    http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...Pump-Questions

    I just purchased 2 of the 4 roller models for my 220. Not sure about more than 1 liquid per pump. Is why I have two. One is not a spare One for macros and one for micros.

    As far as ph/kh chart and drop checker color. Note that this is a TARGET range. Each tank may need more or less. Tom and others have measured 50 ppm and + in their tanks using more sophisticated metering devices for c02. It is the AMOUNT OF C02 THAT CAUSES THE PH DROP that is the issue, not the ph drop itself. C02 is death to fish in too high a concentration as many have learned to their sorrow.

    A checker only tells you what the ph may have been as many as 2-4 hours in the past..try and use plant growth and algae levels as a guide. Slow and steady adjustment/observation every few days is required for c02 until it is dialed in. Then if plant mass increase, both c02 and ferts need to be increased. The reverse can also be true.

    I would TRY your reactor as is with the counterflow tube outside of the other. What is the worst that can happen? It won't work? Then we try again is all

    Can you post a pic or two of the unit 'complete' so we can see the end result as well as the components?

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Gerryd; 06-03-2013 at 11:57 AM.
    Thanks,

    Gerry.

    'When something's not right, it's wrong'. Bob Dylan

    Current 220 scape

    http://www.barrreport.com/album.php?albumid=34

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Gerryd View Post
    http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...Pump-Questions

    I just purchased 2 of the 4 roller models for my 220. Not sure about more than 1 liquid per pump. Is why I have two. One is not a spare One for macros and one for micros.

    As far as ph/kh chart and drop checker color. Note that this is a TARGET range. Each tank may need more or less. Tom and others have measured 50 ppm and + in their tanks using more sophisticated metering devices for c02. It is the AMOUNT OF C02 THAT CAUSES THE PH DROP that is the issue, not the ph drop itself. C02 is death to fish in too high a concentration as many have learned to their sorrow.

    A checker only tells you what the ph may have been as many as 2-4 hours in the past..try and use plant growth and algae levels as a guide. Slow and steady adjustment/observation every few days is required for c02 until it is dialed in. Then if plant mass increase, both c02 and ferts need to be increased. The reverse can also be true.

    I would TRY your reactor as is with the counterflow tube outside of the other. What is the worst that can happen? It won't work? Then we try again is all

    Can you post a pic or two of the unit 'complete' so we can see the end result as well as the components?

    Hope this helps.
    Gerry, The reactor is installed and apparently working, can see all the micro bubbles being pushed in by the NW pump, then slowly rising to the point at which it enters the outflow portion, which leaves about 7" of airspace. Still see lost of micro bubbles entering into my sump and still what appears like bubbles attached to crud in the tank as Tom had previously explained. So I dont think I am quite there yet on clarity. Not sure removing the air space will help by removing more bubbles? I am also considering either a Purr Flow on the output of my sump for further mechanical filtration, or was considering a used canister with just fine mechanical filtration only taken out of the return portion of my sump and also returned there. For me it might be easier then plumbing the purr flow inline with my return.

    So I assume you ultimately need 4 dosing pumps? For which ferts? I assume you also buy dry ferts then mix?

    I can get more c02 into my tank. I am running at the same rate I was when I had my 5 lb tank and it last 16 days, do some basic math would put my 30 lb tank somehwere around 3 months. If I had to change out every 2 months would not be a major issue. Currently out of the country will post pics when I return next weekend. Sure is nice having the Apex to view all that is going on with my tank remotely. Stll need to add the webcams for the tank and sump area.

    Thanks Gerry!

  7. #77
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    So I assume you ultimately need 4 dosing pumps? For which ferts? I assume you also buy dry ferts then mix?
    No, why 4 pumps?

    1 will do your macros: NPK. The other for your macros with a bit of excel. Not sure why you feel the need for twice that???

    Yes, dry ferts mixed to the amount of water in your dosing reservoir to get the ppm levels you want. then the pump is timed to deliver X amount of each for your tank volume.
    Thanks,

    Gerry.

    'When something's not right, it's wrong'. Bob Dylan

    Current 220 scape

    http://www.barrreport.com/album.php?albumid=34

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Gerryd View Post
    No, why 4 pumps?

    1 will do your macros: NPK. The other for your macros with a bit of excel. Not sure why you feel the need for twice that???

    Yes, dry ferts mixed to the amount of water in your dosing reservoir to get the ppm levels you want. then the pump is timed to deliver X amount of each for your tank volume.
    My mistake, your post made mention of buying 2 of the 4 roller models, thought you meant you bought the first 2 and you will buy 2 more

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Gerryd View Post
    No, why 4 pumps?

    1 will do your macros: NPK. The other for your macros with a bit of excel. Not sure why you feel the need for twice that???

    Yes, dry ferts mixed to the amount of water in your dosing reservoir to get the ppm levels you want. then the pump is timed to deliver X amount of each for your tank volume.
    Gerry,

    Which model exactly did you buy? With all of your experience and this forum in gerneral, no reason for me to reinvent the wheel and make a mistake. I would buy the same.
    I assume you mean Macro NPK and micro with excel? Interesting you still find adding excel useful

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