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Copper piping in house issue or cause of death of shrimps?

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  • Copper piping in house issue or cause of death of shrimps?

    I was wondering if anyone has copper water pipes in their home and rearing shrimps at the same time? My home is using copper water pipes. I never really thought about this till my newly added 10 Red Cherry Shrimps died one after another in a matter of 4 weeks. They seem to die right after they molt. They seem to molt fine. Strange thing was that my Amano shrimp has been in my tank for over 1 month before I added my RCS and it is still surving one month after my last RCS died. And to think I was so worried about copper in my ferts since I started to do EI. My fishes are all doing fine. Initially I though it was my low GH/KH and I tried using Sodium Bicarbonate on each WC to increase my KH. Its still at 0 which I believe is due to my ADA Amazonia soil. My tap water has 0KH too. Tap water is 3GH and I add a little equalibrium at WC in a attempt to increase is a little. Its now at 3.5/4 after 2 months of adding equalibrium at each water change. I want to add more shrimps but dun want to end up as last time. Any ideas? Should I just forget about shrimps due to my copper water pipes or it does not matter if the water pipes are copper or steel?

  • #2
    Have you measured the Copper?
    www.BarrReport.com

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    • #3
      What is the PH of your tapwater? Pipes are very rarely 'leaking' noticeable ammounts of copper into the water.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Tom Barr View Post
        Have you measured the Copper?
        I had not thought to measure copper as my tap water analysis has extremely low copper amount and I check all stuff I add to ensure no or low copper. As a result I thought a copper test was of no use. It was only recently that I recall I changed all my water Pipes 3 years ago to copper! I will get a copper test hopefully today to confirm it.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Hallen View Post
          What is the PH of your tapwater? Pipes are very rarely 'leaking' noticeable ammounts of copper into the water.
          It's around 7-7.5 the few times I checked. The water station says to expect 7-9. My tank goes to 5.5/5.8 after co2 injection and back to 6.5/6.8 in the morning. It goes to 5ph sometimes for some reason at the end of my co2 photo period.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by oliverpool View Post
            It's around 7-7.5 the few times I checked. The water station says to expect 7-9. My tank goes to 5.5/5.8 after co2 injection and back to 6.5/6.8 in the morning. It goes to 5ph sometimes for some reason at the end of my co2 photo period.
            do you use a drop checker? if so what color is it and what kind of solution is in it?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tom Barr View Post
              Have you measured the Copper?
              I just got a sera copper test kit and measured my water twice. No copper at all. So my guess is that my copper pipe is not leaking into the water. My shrimps death must be some other reasons then. As a result of this, and that its been a month since the deaths, I gotten 5 blue shrimps and added it into my tank. Lets see how it goes.....

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              • #8
                Originally posted by anov50 View Post
                do you use a drop checker? if so what color is it and what kind of solution is in it?
                I am using the Dennerle co2 checker. It comes with like 5 tubes of blue liquid. I change mine every 5/6 weeks or so. It shows somewhere between dark/light green after the CO2 is on for around 45 mins. I run my CO2 and lights around 7.5 hours each day. I actually have my airstone one all the time now instead of having it on only when the CO2/lights are running which I was doing before.

                Looking at the flow of the "cloud" when I dose my micro, I say my flow is pretty good as it takes less then a min before the whole tank is cloudy. My CO2 atomizer goes into my aquaclear hob and is trapped by the sponge etc etc so it should be pretty dissolved as far as I can see.

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                • #9
                  If shrimp appear to be Dying after molting, then perhaps a bit of iodide such as that used in reef aquariums may be worth a try? Is debateable topic from all that I have read,some use it,some don't.
                  Might also consider water conditioner such as PRIME that detoxifys heavy metals along with chlorine and chloromines.
                  I have similar problem with some cherry shrimp that sister gave me.They are fine for a couple weeks and then Die but it seems to be only females that perish.
                  Did take note that CSM+B trace I was using contained a bit higher percentage of copper than the Flourish comprehensive that I used previously, and have since returned to the flourish for the shrimp only tank.
                  Sister uses flourish with no issues and I suspect I may have eyeballed the CSM+B a little on the heavy side.
                  I guess time will tell.
                  I find it odd that my females appear to be only shrimps affected, and maybe odd as well that my Amano shrimp in planted NON CO2 tank still using CSM+B appear unaffected.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 1077 View Post

                    Did take note that CSM+B trace I was using contained a bit higher percentage of copper than the Flourish comprehensive that I used previously, and have since returned to the flourish for the shrimp only tank.
                    Sister uses flourish with no issues and I suspect I may have eyeballed the CSM+B a little on the heavy side.
                    I guess time will tell.
                    I find it odd that my females appear to be only shrimps affected, and maybe odd as well that my Amano shrimp in planted NON CO2 tank still using CSM+B appear unaffected.
                    Hi, because I mix my own trace mix from scratch. So I've spent some time comparing traces brands.
                    CSM+B doesn't has just a bit higher Cu than Flourish Comprehensive. But it's way higher,
                    depending on how you mix your CSM+B.

                    Up to 25x higher if you mix 12.5g (1 TBPS) to 500 ml (per current Tom barr and PMDD) and dose following EI instruction.
                    And up to 50x higher if you mix 25g (2 TBPS) to 500 ml (Tom used to recommend this).

                    Cu in Flourish Comprehensive is very very low. That's why Tom used to dump a whole 200 ml bottle
                    into a 20 gallon tank with no ill effects to critters.
                    http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lo...tml#post292781

                    BTW, I'm not saying that level of Cu in the Flourish is good or not. Because another high-regarded brand like
                    Tropica Plant Nutrition Liquid has even a bit higher Cu than a CSM+B solution.

                    All this post is just to say Cu in Flourish Comprehensive is incredibly low.

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                    • #11
                      Yes,, I stopped with the CSM+B in the shrimp tank for it was the copper that I noted.
                      Flourish at prescribed rate,doesn't seem to bother them or those in my sister's tank.
                      Was searching for possible causes, and this was only thing I could identify that might be the culprit.

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                      • #12
                        I dose EI with CSM+B in tanks with shrimp. No deaths that I would consider due to dosing. These tanks have Amanos, fire red cherries, and orange eyed blue tigers.

                        Is it sufficient to rule out the Cu from CSM+B? I think so...

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                        • #13

                          Hi,

                          CSM+B is something like 64% EDTA so it is unlikely CSM+Bís copper would be the problem, in fact it might well mitigate any excess copper in the water.



                          Unless the house (or plumbing) is brand new it is unlikely that it is leaching significant levels of copper.


                          It is a wise practice to run the water for a few minutes if the water hasnít been used for several hours, I suppose.

                          Biollante

                          The first sign we don't know what we are doing is an obsession with numbers. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

                          Disclaimer: I am not trying to make you mad, it is just what I am, an evil plant monster, 'nuf said.
                          • I believe the information I am giving is sound, I am not a veterinarian, professional chemist or particularly bright and certainly not a "Guru.".
                          • I assume you are of legal age, competent and it is legal for you to acquire, possess and use any materials or perform any action in your in your jurisdiction.
                          • When in doubt "don't."

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                          • #14
                            I have copper pipes, high pH water, and use CSM+B in higher than suggested levels in my co2 injected tank. I have RCS and amanos in this tank. My CRS tank gets distilled water and no ferts...just amazonia aquasoil.

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                            • #15
                              Many said that RCS are the hardiest shrimps. I think Armano are ever hardier!

                              For my case, it was not the copper. And I know of many who does csm+b with no issues. Still a real mystery. I just added 5 Aura Blue...... Wish me luck....

                              Ya I been using prime since day one. But I see no mention of prime removing heavy metals?




                              Originally posted by 1077 View Post
                              If shrimp appear to be Dying after molting, then perhaps a bit of iodide such as that used in reef aquariums may be worth a try? Is debateable topic from all that I have read,some use it,some don't.
                              Might also consider water conditioner such as PRIME that detoxifys heavy metals along with chlorine and chloromines.
                              I have similar problem with some cherry shrimp that sister gave me.They are fine for a couple weeks and then Die but it seems to be only females that perish.
                              Did take note that CSM+B trace I was using contained a bit higher percentage of copper than the Flourish comprehensive that I used previously, and have since returned to the flourish for the shrimp only tank.
                              Sister uses flourish with no issues and I suspect I may have eyeballed the CSM+B a little on the heavy side.
                              I guess time will tell.
                              I find it odd that my females appear to be only shrimps affected, and maybe odd as well that my Amano shrimp in planted NON CO2 tank still using CSM+B appear unaffected.

                              Comment

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