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Water Parameters For Inverts

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  • Water Parameters For Inverts

    Do inverts (shrimp in particular) really need so much work done in water parameters? RCS seem like the guppy of the shrimp world, but reading about the others (bamboo, bee, snowball etc.) makes it seem like they need as much care as discus. I keep seeing strict PH, GH and KH levels dependant on species. Is this really necessary or one of those things that people make it seem more difficult than it is?

  • #2
    I've bred discus using EI........same for CRS, RCS, and now inbred Fire.......Amano's are bullet proof as well.

    So that's 4 types of commonly kept species.
    I cannot say for all species without trying them.

    However, compared to what I know so far, I do not expect a huge difference.
    No surprises yet.
    Temp and predation are the larger issues for me, not nutrients, sediment etc, KH perhaps?
    Cannot say 100%.

    But then again, I do not try and say more than I really know

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
    www.BarrReport.com

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    • #3
      Well, in a same tank, clearly RCS are much more prolific than CRS. Also, abrupt change in water parameters induces more mortality in CRS than RCS in a same tank after a WC with a source water too different from tank parameters

      Most say that parameters stability is more importants than a given value of say PH, GH, KH...

      Also, most agree that breeding CRS in a less than 20 gal tank is very hard to achieve and they will be less breeding when they do
      Aquatic Natur Cocoon 7: 11gal, dry start success / low light / CO2
      >>Follow it here<<

      Aquatlantis Evasion 120: Stopped ---> Malawi setup = No Plants

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      • #4
        Originally posted by csmith View Post
        I keep seeing strict PH, GH and KH levels dependant on species. Is this really necessary or one of those things that people make it seem more difficult than it is?
        More difficult than it is..........

        pH means little to us since many use CO2.
        No one has EVER tested this idea critically anywhere I've seen as far as pH/GH.
        KH?

        Perhaps.........I say this based on fish species, less on shrimp, but assume they may be similar. As far as the 4 species mentioned and few others I've seen that others do have and breed, discuss with........I see little evidence they are critical, KH of the 3 is the only one that might be critical.

        Even with fish, pH/Gh can be a wide range, Discus/Apistos etc.......

        Regards,
        Tom Barr
        www.BarrReport.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jonny_ftm View Post
          Well, in a same tank, clearly RCS are much more prolific than CRS. Also, abrupt change in water parameters induces more mortality in CRS than RCS in a same tank after a WC with a source water too different from tank parameters

          Most say that parameters stability is more importants than a given value of say PH, GH, KH...

          Also, most agree that breeding CRS in a less than 20 gal tank is very hard to achieve and they will be less breeding when they do
          I wasn't leaning as much towards breeding (though that's a good bonus) as much as just keeping them. When I keep seeing such-and-such shrimp has to be kept at a PH of 6.8-7.2 with a KH of 6-7 and a GH of 2-3 (these are all made up numbers, btw, just showing the strict water parameters I keep seeing) it kind of puts you off to keeping anything other than the absolute simple. My basic point is I'd like to keep some of these things, so are they resilient enough to adapt to what I have instead of me having to adapt what I have to them?
          If I understand correctly Discus and Angels were once set to these types of water standards, but it was later proven they were just as adaptable as anything else?

          Here's one source I'm getting my information from. Planet Inverts Not as in depth as others, but you get the idea.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Tom Barr View Post
            More difficult than it is..........

            pH means little to us since many use CO2.
            No one has EVER tested this idea critically anywhere I've seen as far as pH/GH.
            KH?

            Perhaps.........I say this based on fish species, less on shrimp, but assume they may be similar. As far as the 4 species mentioned and few others I've seen that others do have and breed, discuss with........I see little evidence they are critical, KH of the 3 is the only one that might be critical.

            Even with fish, pH/Gh can be a wide range, Discus/Apistos etc.......

            Regards,
            Tom Barr
            What exactly does the KH do? I know it's carbonate hardness, a measure of alkalinity of the water, but how does it affect animals whereas GH and PH don't affect them in the same way?

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            • #7
              KH is likely used for the exoskeleton production. Too little might make it more difficult for growth/accretion. This is a rough guess based on what little I know from corals so it might be GH they use instead.

              -
              S

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              • #8
                Originally posted by shoggoth43 View Post
                KH is likely used for the exoskeleton production. Too little might make it more difficult for growth/accretion. This is a rough guess based on what little I know from corals so it might be GH they use instead.-
                S
                That's GH rather (Ca + Mg). KH is bicarbonates, could be bad at high levels for some fish, maybe shrimps...
                Aquatic Natur Cocoon 7: 11gal, dry start success / low light / CO2
                >>Follow it here<<

                Aquatlantis Evasion 120: Stopped ---> Malawi setup = No Plants

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by csmith View Post
                  I wasn't leaning as much towards breeding (though that's a good bonus) as much as just keeping them. When I keep seeing such-and-such shrimp has to be kept at a PH of 6.8-7.2 with a KH of 6-7 and a GH of 2-3 (these are all made up numbers, btw, just showing the strict water parameters I keep seeing) it kind of puts you off to keeping anything other than the absolute simple. My basic point is I'd like to keep some of these things, so are they resilient enough to adapt to what I have instead of me having to adapt what I have to them?
                  If I understand correctly Discus and Angels were once set to these types of water standards, but it was later proven they were just as adaptable as anything else?

                  Here's one source I'm getting my information from. Planet Inverts Not as in depth as others, but you get the idea.
                  Don't look much on the numbers. RCS are hardy and will breed and adapt to most conditions. Few death at water change. CRS are more sensitive clearly, they also breed much slower, harder to keep shrimplets alive compared to RCS. On asian forums, a majority keep them in soft acidic waters, but most experts agree that stable parameters and avoiding waterchanges woks the best to breed them as shrimplets are very sensitive to abrupt changes in parameters. Many reports of great breeding in GH up to 6-8 and alcaline PH if parameters are very stable

                  CRS are more shy also than RCS. They will hide easier than RCS. They come also to light, but clearly hide more. A high lighted tank can add stress to them and make them hide and breed less. Small tanks are known also to breed less, below 20 gal: population self control? more unstable parameters? less biofilm food for babies?

                  In nano in my signature, EI tank + 50% WC, RCS breed a lot, CRS didn't breed successfully yet. I lost many at WC when started because of calcareous stones causing high difference between tank water and RO+GH I used for the WC (I assumed so). Removed the stones, once water parameters settled, no more death at all, but still no babies. Waiting...
                  Aquatic Natur Cocoon 7: 11gal, dry start success / low light / CO2
                  >>Follow it here<<

                  Aquatlantis Evasion 120: Stopped ---> Malawi setup = No Plants

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I stand corrected on the KH / GH. I figured whichever I wrote it was going to be the other one.

                    It's interesting about the RCS vs. the CRS. I can't seem to keep the cherry shrimp alive for more than a few weeks. The Amanos just don't care. The bamboo ones are fine. I lose a couple CRS here and there. If I put the same amount of CRS and RCS in the tank, in a few weeks I will be guaranteed to have more of the red and whites than just red. Go figure....

                    -
                    S

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