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  • E.Tenellus benefit from root tabs?

    Boring very un-guru-ish type question...

    Lots of E.Tenellus in my tank.

    I'm doing full E.I. (and for those following my recent threads yes I am about to start rolling my own trace mix and additional DIY iron).

    Substrate is 100% Seachem Flourite. Nothing else added to it.

    E.Tenellus is doing ok, but not really "taking off". I'm increasing CO2 slowly etc etc.

    Will adding anything around the roots of the E.Tenellus give them a boost in any way, or is this totally unecessary with full EI?

    Would there be any benifit in me taking some of the 13% EDTA iron and mixing it with some clay or making iron concentrate ice cubes and shoving it deeply into the flourite here and there?

    I'm trying to refresh my memory on this.

    I'm pretty sure Tom has grown good carpetting plants using nothing but plain sand? Correct?

    I'm also pretty sure that Tom said he only bothers with substrate enrichment as a "backup plan" should he miss an EI dose or something like that (although I'm not sure how fast plants can switch between root/follar feeding - i.e. do they need to adapt to it?).

    I'm sure if Tom doesn't chime in, Bio, Nipat, Gerry et al (i.e. the "real gurus" unlike me) will............

    Scott.
    6' Planted Tank (72" x 18" x 20") - 4 x 30W T8 Tri-Phosphors - 2 x Eheim 2217 'Classic' canisters
    Flourite substrate - Ocean Runner OR-2500 + AM1000 - Tunze Turbelle Nanostream 6045
    6.8kg Catalina CO2 - Red Sea Pro regulator - Swagelok B-SS4-A metering valve - Vecton 600 UV

  • #2
    Babble-City...

    Hi Scott,

    I am convinced Echinodorus tenellus cannot be killed!


    However as with all Echinodorus spp., iron, iron and more iron. Yes the Pygmy chain sword will benefit from iron in the substrate.


    I grow them in sand, the older the sand the better, newer sand added iron helps, or a layer of laterite.

    The only real problem I see is in my outdoor tanks when the water temperature goes north of 29C (85F) it starts getting a little weak as the temperatures go past 33C or so it can get a bit messy but comes back well as the temperature declines.


    Added CO2 is nice, but frankly not necessary.


    E. tenellus will take over if you are not careful. They can be kind of fun if in a group or small tank you pinch off the runners you can get a mini-sword plant, this happens occasionally when “trapped” in a corner.


    I grow mini-swords in 2-liter bottles; I do use highly enriched substrate so as not
    to have feed them. Also in 2.5, 5 and 10-gallon tanks with just a small pump to move the water around, it is funny how expansive these tanks can appear. Again in these small tanks a highly enriched substrate can make for a very low maintenance tank for someone ill or infirm or just not into caring for plants, around here many times we can get away with ambient light. Though added light is helpful.

    It is also incredibly easy to grow emersed and can make a nice addition to a bog or vegetative filter, nice flower stalks, quite nice.
    :gw

    Well I will stop babbling now.

    Biollante
    The first sign we don't know what we are doing is an obsession with numbers. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    Disclaimer: I am not trying to make you mad, it is just what I am, an evil plant monster, 'nuf said.
    • I believe the information I am giving is sound, I am not a veterinarian, professional chemist or particularly bright and certainly not a "Guru.".
    • I assume you are of legal age, competent and it is legal for you to acquire, possess and use any materials or perform any action in your in your jurisdiction.
    • When in doubt "don't."

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Bio, your babble is much appreciated, as always.

      However as with all Echinodorus spp., iron, iron and more iron. Yes the Pygmy chain sword will benefit from iron in the substrate.
      But if I'm dosing very high iron in the water column, then any benefits that might be obtained through the substrate would be redundant? As per my "Make my own trace mix" thread, I'm thinking of dosing at 0.5ppm iron 3x per week.

      Would the chain swords obtain so much iron from this level of water column dosing that they wouldn't be able to take on any more iron? I know there is luxury consumption, but if the water column levels are so high anyway....

      I pretty much only have E.Tenellus in my tank now. I decided to toss out all the stem plants and buy some more eventually.

      For the moment it's pretty much Iwugami - tenellus and some large rocks. I think it will look cool once the tenellus carpets properly, I want it to take over!

      Scott.
      6' Planted Tank (72" x 18" x 20") - 4 x 30W T8 Tri-Phosphors - 2 x Eheim 2217 'Classic' canisters
      Flourite substrate - Ocean Runner OR-2500 + AM1000 - Tunze Turbelle Nanostream 6045
      6.8kg Catalina CO2 - Red Sea Pro regulator - Swagelok B-SS4-A metering valve - Vecton 600 UV

      Comment


      • #4
        Roots & Shoots

        Hi Scott,

        Echinodorus spp. are root feeders, they also foliar feed, but many of them come from rather nutrient poor water.


        I will let others speak to the science of it, my observations are that they do well with both root and water column feeding, but as I mentioned in my last post they do very well with rich substrate and no water column dosing.

        I understand that rich substrates contribute to the water column, yet plants that are principally foliar feeders do not do as well with rich substrate only tanks.

        Just for what it is worth…


        Biollante
        The first sign we don't know what we are doing is an obsession with numbers. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

        Disclaimer: I am not trying to make you mad, it is just what I am, an evil plant monster, 'nuf said.
        • I believe the information I am giving is sound, I am not a veterinarian, professional chemist or particularly bright and certainly not a "Guru.".
        • I assume you are of legal age, competent and it is legal for you to acquire, possess and use any materials or perform any action in your in your jurisdiction.
        • When in doubt "don't."

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with the old evil plant monster Yes water dosed fertz help quite a bit, especially Co2. But with some nutrients in the subtrates they really take off.

          For those interesseted, this plant has had a name change. It's now called: Helanthium tenellum

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't see difference. Before (new pool filter sand) vs after adding root ferts. They're always weeds.
            Very versatile, can be placed in hight and low light, as Bio said, they can't be killed.

            But adding ferts to improve substrate doesn't hurt.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi guys,

              Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

              Given that I already have my tank set up and I don't want to mess too much with the substrate, can I DIY something to stick in the gravel around the E.Te.....ah wait.......H. tenellum? What exactly should they be given at the roots - same as what you would dose in the water column I suppose?

              Or will just some plain old house plant spikes do the trick?

              I believe some of these can be quite high in ammonia though, I want something high in iron though, correct?

              Scott.
              6' Planted Tank (72" x 18" x 20") - 4 x 30W T8 Tri-Phosphors - 2 x Eheim 2217 'Classic' canisters
              Flourite substrate - Ocean Runner OR-2500 + AM1000 - Tunze Turbelle Nanostream 6045
              6.8kg Catalina CO2 - Red Sea Pro regulator - Swagelok B-SS4-A metering valve - Vecton 600 UV

              Comment


              • #8
                My E. tenellus grows like a weed with 2 WPG of T12 light in a 3 year old topsoil substrate. It is very invasive and need trimming at least every 3 weeks.

                Be sure it gets enough light.

                Bill

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'll leave my substrate alone and see how they go and report back...
                  6' Planted Tank (72" x 18" x 20") - 4 x 30W T8 Tri-Phosphors - 2 x Eheim 2217 'Classic' canisters
                  Flourite substrate - Ocean Runner OR-2500 + AM1000 - Tunze Turbelle Nanostream 6045
                  6.8kg Catalina CO2 - Red Sea Pro regulator - Swagelok B-SS4-A metering valve - Vecton 600 UV

                  Comment

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