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  • Nutrient Deficiency

    I have a 29 gallon tank with 72W of T5 NO lighting. I inject CO2 though a reactor and measure it with a 4dKH drop checker - by midday my plants are usually pearling and the drop checker is lime green. Normally I dose Pfertz 3X weekly at the recommended dosage. All was going very well for over a year. In the past few weeks my LOBELIA CARDINALIS and even staurogyne repens has taken a turn for the worst - they look almost wilted and started taking on a lot of GSA. My inclination is a phosphate deficiency. Any thoughts?

    Zebra Plecos - 7 x L046 (4M/3F) + Fry !!!
    L144 x 2
    LDA25 X 5
    I haven't met too many plecos I didn't like...

  • #2
    Hi,

    Have you been increasing c02 and ferts to account for the increased bio-mass over the last year?

    You have a good amount of light for such a small tank...If the plants are now more dense, and c02 remains the same, you will have issues.

    I would look to your ferts and c02. BTW, a drop checker is not really an ACCURATE c02 measurement...plus the 2-4 hour lag time...it is really fairly useless

    More details on the tank? Substrate, more lighting details (# bulbs, temp, etc).

    Thanks
    Thanks,

    Gerry.

    'When something's not right, it's wrong'. Bob Dylan

    Current 220 scape

    http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...3219-220-video

    Comment


    • #3
      It might also be helpful to share what you are actually dosing into your tank. To some, (me that is) Pfertz 3X weekly might be just a bit vague.
      :encouragement: Roll You're Own: Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association
      Mixed with a sound of water's murmuring
      a sensitive plant in a garden growing.

      Comment


      • #4
        The substrate is 50/50 mix of EcoComplete and ADA Aquasoil. The lights are T5NO, there are four of them each are 18W. They are all the 6500K Coralife bulbs.

        As for increasing CO2 and ferts, I have been slowly increasing the CO2. This really helped with algae issues and growth issues in the past. I've been fairly consistent dosing the Pfertz line - 1 pump/5gal after a 60% weekly water change, and 1 pump/10 gal ever other day thereafter.

        The Pfertz line is pre-mixed. There are four bottles in the product line. The bottles are N, P, K, and micros. www.pfertz.com. I also dose Excel at water changes (3 capfuls).

        What I don't get is everything else I the tank looks good - the problem is mainly confined to the cardinalis. And it really happened after I divided up the mother plant to propagate.
        Zebra Plecos - 7 x L046 (4M/3F) + Fry !!!
        L144 x 2
        LDA25 X 5
        I haven't met too many plecos I didn't like...

        Comment


        • #5
          You Must Be One of Them Thar 1% Types>>> Pfertz... Oh Please

          Hi,

          The Lobelia cardinalis pictured in your original post does not appear to be the Lobelia cardinalis “Small Form” (the leaves would be rounder), which is a bog plant that can spend a great deal of time under water.


          Your plant appears to be the Lobelia cardinalis L. spp. that will survive underwater for a while then die, it is a pretty plant, get it out of the aquarium and outside or in a pot.
          :nonchalance:

          The plant will foul your water as it dies.
          :cower:

          The Pfertz thing… We need to talk…
          :wink-new:

          Biollante
          The first sign we don't know what we are doing is an obsession with numbers. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

          Disclaimer: I am not trying to make you mad, it is just what I am, an evil plant monster, 'nuf said.
          • I believe the information I am giving is sound, I am not a veterinarian, professional chemist or particularly bright and certainly not a "Guru.".
          • I assume you are of legal age, competent and it is legal for you to acquire, possess and use any materials or perform any action in your in your jurisdiction.
          • When in doubt "don't."

          Comment


          • #6
            This looks more like a CO2 issue, not Nitrogen or other things.

            You can dose more pfertz and easily rule out ferts as long as they have everything in them the plant needs etc.

            Then it's just CO2, but I've had a lot of Lobelia in the past and found it very easy and forgiving, when....... good CO2 was used.


            If other plants have smaller tip growth, then you can bet it's CO2.
            www.BarrReport.com

            Comment


            • #7
              I am positive that the plant I am calling "L. Cardinalis" is an aquatic plant. I've had this one for over a year and a half and have had this plant before in the past. The leaves are small and round - they are just curved and folded under due to whatever problem I am having. Usually, like Tom said, it is a forgiving and very undemanding. Which "flavor" of cardinalis and the exact Latin name, I'm not sure.

              Would you recommend EI dosing rather than using the Pfertz? Tell me, I can handle the truth....

              When you say "good CO2", do you mean that I have too little or too much? Some of the other plants do appear to have slightly smaller new tip growth.

              Doesn't the increased GSA implicate a shortage of phosphate?
              Zebra Plecos - 7 x L046 (4M/3F) + Fry !!!
              L144 x 2
              LDA25 X 5
              I haven't met too many plecos I didn't like...

              Comment


              • #8
                GSA suggested either or both PO4 and CO2 is poor.

                PO4 is easy to rule out after 2 weeks of good dosing.

                So this leaves you with........CO2.
                www.BarrReport.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  No Mas Pantalones

                  EI doses of Pfertz P would require ruffly a 35 mL dose to your tank three times a week.

                  Yes, EI is highly regarded around here. It helps that the nutrients we add are relatively inexpensive.
                  Then, back to CO2 and what to do about it.
                  :encouragement: Roll You're Own: Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association
                  Mixed with a sound of water's murmuring
                  a sensitive plant in a garden growing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gerryd View Post
                    BTW, a drop checker is not really an ACCURATE c02 measurement...plus the 2-4 hour lag time...it is really fairly useless
                    If drop checkers are useless, what the hell are we supposed to use or go by (-go buy- even)?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What's Better Then One Drop Checker?

                      One drop checker with 4dKH can read anywhere from 18.9 and 47.5ppm CO2 depending on which shade of green you're able to discern.

                      Some indicators of low levels of CO2 would be GSA and stunted or slower then normal plant growth. Garry may know some more.

                      The main thing to watch are your fish.
                      One drop checker is good, but two are better. (or, wet killed a bunch of fish.)
                      :encouragement: Roll You're Own: Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association
                      Mixed with a sound of water's murmuring
                      a sensitive plant in a garden growing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I find drop checker really a waste of time. Not accurate despite using the best indicating liquid, if it works, it takes more than couple hours to show and there's always a lag time.

                        I have personally used my plants and fish as CO2 indicator. Start from low, 2-3 bps and gradually increase everyday... adequate Co2 will be visible in plants after only a day or two, strong vibrant leaf shapes, no legginess in stems, pearling++, and you can increase your bps as much as you like until you see your fish starts to come to the surface gasping for O2, then you know you have reached maximum point.

                        As for water movements and surface agitation, ensure there are ripples on the surface but not big enough to break them. That should be sufficient for oxygenation at night

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