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  • I am going to the milky way!

    Well, that is sorta how my new NO3 fertilizer looks.
    (Very) partially based yet fully inspired by the AR Makro Spezial N fertilizer, but without urea.

    I have dilluted the following chemicals into 1 liter:
    KNO3: 15.08 grams
    K2SO4: 14.85 grams
    Ca(NO3)2*4(H2O): 117.56 grams
    Mg(NO3)2*6(H2O): 60 grams

    This gives me, when adding 1 ml of this solution to 50 liters of water:
    - 2 ppm NO3
    - 0.25ppm K
    - 0.4ppm Ca
    - 0.115 ppm Mg

    p.s. i am not German, but the calculator i used is

    Last edited by Gilles; 02-18-2012, 07:17 AM. Reason: added language excuse :)

  • #2
    Hi Gillies,
    How are you getting 117.56 g of the Ca(NO3)2.4H2O to dissolve into one 1000 mL solution?

    Get wet.
    http://calc.petalphile.com/mobile
    Last edited by Tug; 02-18-2012, 01:56 PM.
    :encouragement: Roll You're Own: Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association
    Mixed with a sound of water's murmuring
    a sensitive plant in a garden growing.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, the solubility of Ca(NO3)2.4H2O at room temperature is 121 mg/mL, which equals 121 grams.
      I used boiled R/O water to dissolve it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Like A Rock

        Hi Gilles,

        Magnesium and Calcium are do not work and play well together.

        Biollante
        The first sign we don't know what we are doing is an obsession with numbers. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

        Disclaimer: I am not trying to make you mad, it is just what I am, an evil plant monster, 'nuf said.
        • I believe the information I am giving is sound, I am not a veterinarian, professional chemist or particularly bright and certainly not a "Guru.".
        • I assume you are of legal age, competent and it is legal for you to acquire, possess and use any materials or perform any action in your in your jurisdiction.
        • When in doubt "don't."

        Comment


        • #5
          What is your suggestion? What could happen/allready happened then in my mix?

          Comment


          • #6
            Bio may have gotten this one wrong

            it is not the Ca&Mg but the sulfate.

            @Tug should be no problem getting Ca(NO3)2 in solution as something like 130g to 100g H2O

            Comment


            • #7
              Figured something like that. This morning i had about 1cm of goo in the bottom of the container which would not dissolve. Is this the Sulfate reacting?

              Comment


              • #8
                p.s. how about Calcium chloride or Calcium citrate, this is chelated right?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Try it w/out the K2SO4.
                  :encouragement: Roll You're Own: Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association
                  Mixed with a sound of water's murmuring
                  a sensitive plant in a garden growing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yea, I think Tug is correct, the K2SO4 is goo like if you add too much, whereas Ca(NO3)2 is extremely soluble(all Nitrate salts are).

                    Also, one of the points.............of using KNO3, is that it is Rich in K+ relative to nitrogen.........in other words, adding KNO3 will prevent any limitations of growth issues in 99% of planted aquariums, maybe more.

                    The whole point of the special N fert is about Ca/Mg/K+ ratios, which I think are baloney.
                    Once these ions dissolve, it does not matter WHERE they originate.

                    If you did not have enough N, or K+, or perhaps Mg.........was low........then you start watching and dosing carefully...........well, yes, you will have better results in many cases.
                    But that does not imply WHY or that it was the ratio etc.

                    I've had all sorts of Ca and Mg and K+ ratios, never once have I once been able to attribute any negative growth aspect to changes I've made. This ratio baloney got going back around 2001 and like many myths, simply will not die. Folks have repackaged the claim and redo things with it, but if it was indeed true, how come I cannot induce the growth issues that some claim? Do the folks that use it go back and check? Not that I've ever seen.
                    I'll come across harsh about this, but it is because I've tried to mess with these to get a negative growth or what many assumed that was caused by some magic ratio.

                    How come my plants grow well without any of that?

                    I grow them as well as anyone, I grow the more eclectic rare, picky, difficult species that are available. I cannot verify the claims. Some folks say they had better results, but ........we do not know why. I can make the same claim about dosing more traces vs the typical dosing of 0.1ppm Fe or less......
                    As many of these hobbyists do not go back and test to see.............they are never going to be sure. There are many thing that it could be, without looking at those, it's impossible to say much.
                    www.BarrReport.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If You Are Not Part Of The Solution You Must Be Precipitate (Getting Really Old)

                      Hi Gilles, All,

                      Bigflusher and Tug are correct.
                      • In a single replacement reaction the Potassium sulfate and Calcium nitrate
                      • are precipitating Calcium sulfate.
                      I am with Tom Barr entirely on this specific ratios rubbish.
                      :encouragement:

                      I think you are working to hard.
                      :glee:

                      Biollante
                      The first sign we don't know what we are doing is an obsession with numbers. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

                      Disclaimer: I am not trying to make you mad, it is just what I am, an evil plant monster, 'nuf said.
                      • I believe the information I am giving is sound, I am not a veterinarian, professional chemist or particularly bright and certainly not a "Guru.".
                      • I assume you are of legal age, competent and it is legal for you to acquire, possess and use any materials or perform any action in your in your jurisdiction.
                      • When in doubt "don't."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I made one without the K2SO4 and it works like a charm. 0 precipitation. Will see how this one goes.

                        p.s. spent the last 6 hours fixing my CO2. Major re-plumbing down under, but it is finished. No more atomizers, welcome back AM1000 (the third one i bought...)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gilles View Post
                          I made one without the K2SO4 and it works like a charm. 0 precipitation. Will see how this one goes.

                          p.s. spent the last 6 hours fixing my CO2. Major re-plumbing down under, but it is finished. No more atomizers, welcome back AM1000 (the third one i bought...)
                          I have been using this special N fertilizer recipe for few months by now. In my case it does work somewhat better than just KNO3, but I am not sure why. my observation is that this recipe works better in aquariums with very soft water KH 1-2, GH 2-3. In water with higher KH and GH it does not have so much effect.
                          My small theory is that everyday supply of small amounts of Ca++ and Mg++ could benefit some plant species. I tested that theory with K+. If I supply the weekly amount of K+ at once in the beginning of the week by the end of the week I get K+ deficiency symptoms. If I supply smaller amounts of K+ every day then I do not get any K+ related problems. In both cases I am talking about the same weekly amount of K+ of 30ppm.
                          My guess is that the other cations would be more accessible if supplied every day or at least few times per week to prevent possible participation into insoluble or inaccessible compounds.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gilles View Post
                            I made one without the K2SO4 and it works like a charm. 0 precipitation. Will see how this one goes.

                            p.s. spent the last 6 hours fixing my CO2. Major re-plumbing down under, but it is finished. No more atomizers, welcome back AM1000 (the third one i bought...)
                            Wise move, this was the root of the problem.
                            Now to tweak and make sure it's running correctly. Do this slowly and watch.

                            My 70 Gal has developed a leak somewhere in the CO2, which was leading to the HC acting weird.
                            www.BarrReport.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aquadream View Post
                              I have been using this special N fertilizer recipe for few months by now. In my case it does work somewhat better than just KNO3, but I am not sure why. my observation is that this recipe works better in aquariums with very soft water KH 1-2, GH 2-3. In water with higher KH and GH it does not have so much effect.
                              My small theory is that everyday supply of small amounts of Ca++ and Mg++ could benefit some plant species. I tested that theory with K+. If I supply the weekly amount of K+ at once in the beginning of the week by the end of the week I get K+ deficiency symptoms. If I supply smaller amounts of K+ every day then I do not get any K+ related problems. In both cases I am talking about the same weekly amount of K+ of 30ppm.
                              My guess is that the other cations would be more accessible if supplied every day or at least few times per week to prevent possible participation into insoluble or inaccessible compounds.
                              Well of course it will work better where folks do not use Gh booster.
                              Which as far as I can tell, has been the case with many that have used it.
                              Whether the Ca and Mg come from sulfate or NO3 really do not matter and K+ is independent as long as it is not limiting.

                              You still have SO4 from K2SO4
                              You still have Ca, Mg and NO3.

                              Whether it's dry form makes a difference or not is baloney.
                              Same for the ratios.

                              Once in the water.....they are dissolved.

                              I do not buy this............

                              You can add GH booster and should see the same effect, if not, then it is something else that was overlooked.
                              Unless the salts are not dissolving and there is some sort of "magic", this should be true.

                              If you go from say 30ppm down to say 5ppm, vs simply staying at 30ppm to 20ppm, then that might be why.......
                              I dose 2-3x a week, I do not try and push weekly dosing.

                              With higher rates of growth, it seems 2-3x a week is the min for dosing, EI does/suggest this, but some go daily also with EI.


                              If you dose daily vs 1x a week, of course you will see improvement.

                              I have no issue with special N, but it's simply adding a GH booster to the N vs GH booster alone(which should be added if you use very soft water and in many cases even if not).
                              I honestly cannot see how there's any difference other than Liebig's law going on here, the salt fertilizers ALL DISSOLVE into the same things once in the water.

                              As long as the absolute levels do not fall to limiting values or where the plants have to adapt enzymatically due to wide flux of ppm's in the water(1x a week say vs 2-3x a week), this should and does not make any difference.
                              I've moved ferts around and over wider ranges than most hobbyists, I can see no evidence to support any of this. My tanks/plants can only getting through scaping and general care, not adding light/CO2 or some special fertilizer ratio/routine.

                              For maintaining stable ppm's , this works over a much wider range in the upper ranges vs the lower ranges, so if you like to add barely enough, or keep the dosing very lean to lean, then you might see some enzymatic effects and adaptations, but that is due to limiting and running things lean, not due to a special magic.
                              As you approach a limitation......you have to start dosing more carefully and daily etc. Every growth curve, dosing method, Liebig's law predicts this.

                              I have soft water, GH of 2 and KH of 1. I dose 2x a week mostly except for Traces, which has some Mg. I dose K2SO4/CaSO4/MgSO4 as Gh booster 2x a week.
                              I use KH2PO4 and KNO3 otherwise. Now if they went with the Urea/NH4 aspect, then that would make a difference...........as NH4+ NO4 vs NO3 might make some difference, there is some support for that, but curiously....the folks using this dosing have abandoned that, and only are using NO3 alone.
                              They were just limited prior to using this and did not use GH booster is all. They need to go back and see if the GH booster does the same effect, and it better..........otherwise they made a mistake somewhere.

                              As I am adding K+ as Gh booster, and as KNO3(much more than Special N), and as KH2PO4(also a lot more than many of the dosing folks that use special N), I have little issue, as long as the levels do not fall below 10-20ppm, I'm good.
                              How does one get K+ deficiency at 10-20ppm?

                              I can see say 5ppm or less etc......so then daily becomes important perhaps.........but at say 20-30ppm...........there is little difference between 20 and 30ppm.
                              www.BarrReport.com

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