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Going Dutch with Aquasoil

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  • How unfortunatly to get empty co2 tank and spare, the same time... I had diatoms and they are gone in no,time when the water parameters are back to normal. Hope everyting will work oit fine.for you tank. Fingers crosed!

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    • Amazing plant conditions, I have two questions
      What light bulbs you actually use ?
      Have you still used aeration during the light off period?

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      • Originally posted by Atb333atb View Post
        How unfortunatly to get empty co2 tank and spare, the same time... I had diatoms and they are gone in no,time when the water parameters are back to normal. Hope everyting will work oit fine.for you tank. Fingers crosed!
        Tank is back to normal. Diatom will be gone completely by tomorrow. There is one tuft left on one of the filter outputs.

        There is always some algae present in small quantities. If I look closely, I will see 4 types - Green spot, green dust, some cladophora, and may be some BBA. BBA is on the plastic filter output and may be on one or two Isoetes leaves that are directly in from of the filter output. Blue green and diatoms are generally not visible.

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        • Originally posted by marcecrisco View Post
          Amazing plant conditions, I have two questions
          What light bulbs you actually use ?
          Have you still used aeration during the light off period?
          Thanks.

          I use BML Dutch xB LEDs. They are no longer made. I have three 6-foot strips. The BMLs are turned down to 50 or 60% of maximum intensity.
          And I have two 3-foot Finnex MonsterRay. MonsterRay are red-heavy and make the red plants look prettier.

          Ultimately, light does not matter. I can make this tank work just as well with T5 or T8, or metal halides. Spectrum does not matter that much to plants. Kelvin is the same. People care about these things, not plants. Give the plants 50-100 PAR. Case closed. Move on. Time and mental energy are better spent on CO2, water changes, cleaning, maintenance, optimizing ferts.

          Yes, absolutely, I have two airstones come on right after light go off. And the air stones go off half hour to hour before light on. People focus a lot on CO2 (and they should!) but you should also focus attention on oxygen/flow/surface agitation for proper gas exchange.
          Last edited by Pikez; 04-19-2017, 07:27 PM.

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          • Originally posted by Pikez View Post

            Thanks.

            I use BML Dutch xB LEDs. They are no longer made. I have three 6-foot strips. The BMLs are turned down to 50 or 60% of maximum intensity.
            And I have two 3-foot Finnex MonsterRay. MonsterRay are red-heavy and make the red plants look prettier.

            Ultimately, light does not matter. I can make this tank work just as well with T5 or T8, or metal halides. Spectrum does not matter that much to plants. Kelvin is the same. People care about these things, not plants. Give the plants 50-100 PAR. Case closed. Move on. Time and mental energy are better spent on CO2, water changes, cleaning, maintenance, optimizing ferts.

            Yes, absolutely, I have two airstones come on right after light go off. And the air stores go off half hour to hour before light on. People focus a lot of CO2 (and they should!) but you should also focus attention on oxygen/flow/surface agitation for proper gas exchange.
            Par is not the issue for reds, spectrum is...

            Eat, sleep, breath PLANTS!
            -D. Singh

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            • Originally posted by Pikez View Post
              Yes, absolutely, I have two airstones come on right after light go off. And the air stores go off half hour to hour before light on. People focus a lot of CO2 (and they should!) but you should also focus attention on oxygen/flow/surface agitation for proper gas exchange.
              Always learning something here... I didn't know you aerate with air stones at night. Where do you have your air stones? Inside the tank hidden behind the plants? I have never spotted them in your pics!

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              • Originally posted by fablau View Post

                Always learning something here... I didn't know you aerate with air stones at night. Where do you have your air stones? Inside the tank hidden behind the plants? I have never spotted them in your pics!
                Yes, I use a Tetra Whisper Deep Water Pump with two outputs. It's kinda shocking how much air that thing moves!

                I have two Koralia pumps aimed at the surface - front left and back right corners. And three canister filters, with the big FX6 also aimed at the surface. So that's 3 gadgets seriously moving water at the surface. This goes on 24/7. Even then, the pH rise through the night is less than when I add a mere air stone. It could be small air pump with a small air stone. The air bubbles are still better at getting rid of CO2 and presumably adding O2 at night than just the pumps.

                I try to hide some of this ugly stuff when I take a full tank shot. But the gadgets are there. Pretty messy.

                Remember, this is a garage tank. It is surrounded by half dozen equally big cichlid tanks. So it's pretty messy outside the tank. I wish I were OCD/neat freak. It'd look so much nicer than it does. If/when I feel like I can duplicate this success anywhere and anytime on command, then I will begin dropping hints with the wife about possibly putting an 8-foot Dutch tank as a divider in the living room. It would be unique for a Dutch tank because it'd have to be viewed from both sides. That makes scaping exponentially more difficult.

                Guys like Tom, Senske bros and Oliver Knott do it day in and day out. I'm just not confident I can do that. Besides, the pressure I'd put on myself for it to look flawless, splash-free, and leak-proof (have wood floors) will be immense. That's why after 10 years in this house, I have yet to move on that project.

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                • Flower stalk on Nuphar lutea.




                  (Take that Erio seed peddlers!)

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                  • Originally posted by Pikez View Post

                    Yes, I use a Tetra Whisper Deep Water Pump with two outputs. It's kinda shocking how much air that thing moves!

                    I have two Koralia pumps aimed at the surface - front left and back right corners. And three canister filters, with the big FX6 also aimed at the surface. So that's 3 gadgets seriously moving water at the surface. This goes on 24/7. Even then, the pH rise through the night is less than when I add a mere air stone. It could be small air pump with a small air stone. The air bubbles are still better at getting rid of CO2 and presumably adding O2 at night than just the pumps.

                    I try to hide some of this ugly stuff when I take a full tank shot. But the gadgets are there. Pretty messy.

                    Remember, this is a garage tank. It is surrounded by half dozen equally big cichlid tanks. So it's pretty messy outside the tank. I wish I were OCD/neat freak. It'd look so much nicer than it does. If/when I feel like I can duplicate this success anywhere and anytime on command, then I will begin dropping hints with the wife about possibly putting an 8-foot Dutch tank as a divider in the living room. It would be unique for a Dutch tank because it'd have to be viewed from both sides. That makes scaping exponentially more difficult.

                    Guys like Tom, Senske bros and Oliver Knott do it day in and day out. I'm just not confident I can do that. Besides, the pressure I'd put on myself for it to look flawless, splash-free, and leak-proof (have wood floors) will be immense. That's why after 10 years in this house, I have yet to move on that project.
                    Wow, I bet you get a lot of degassing by doing that... and do you have an open tank also, right?

                    I have that big Tetra Whisper pump as well, and I know, it is VERY powerful.

                    My tank is closed at the top, but I have a big wet/dry, and I keep the pre-filter lid half open, which degases pretty much like having an airstone in the tank, I tried that in the past... but of course, I could combine both things to degas even fast and give even more oxygen at night which is always good... but my tank is in my living room and the Tetra pump would make noise at night that I can hear from upstairs where I sleep (damn!!), that's why I tried but never persisted using air-pumps at night...

                    One last question: do you use just regular air-stones or the super-fines ones?


                    And last comment: I think, by seeing what you could accomplish on these pages, you are not less than Tom or other top aqua-designers, and I am sure you'd do an excellent job with a 3 or 4 views scape!

                    Comment


                    • Fab - yes, tank is partially open. It's an old acrylic tank with large porthole type openings. It is not fully open like modern glass tanks.

                      You don't need a big-a** tetra pump that'll keep you up at night. A teeny tiny silent pump will do the job just fine.

                      I use regular airstones, but if you want to get fancy with the wood stones, that's great too.

                      Thanks for your vote of confidence. I may know my way around Dutch scaping, but I am a total moron when it comes to equipment, gear, and hardware. I know a turd from a turnip, as burr puts it, but I barely know a screwdriver from a wrench. There is a dude here in Hidden Hills who put in a 600-gal tank. Upstairs!!! A crane delivered tank thru a balcony. He turned his walk-in closet into a giant filtration unit with a drain in the middle. Walls of closet are completely water proof and he can hose down the walls! Total cost: only $100K. There is some serious expertise out there.

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                      • Nuphar lutea flower stalk above water now. Plants put a lot of energy into flowering, so leaf size and rate of new leaf sprouting will probably decrease. No clue what to expect next.




                        Moved out Samolus valerandi. Put in Mini Myrio (Guyana) instead. The Mini Myrio is better than the Samolus, but what this spot really needs for proper contrast is the old favorite - Blyxa japonica. But I dont have any Blyxa atm. Until then, this will have to do. If I let the Myrio grow a little taller, it won't compete with the Limno Vietnam so much.





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                        • Originally posted by Pikez View Post
                          Fab - yes, tank is partially open. It's an old acrylic tank with large porthole type openings. It is not fully open like modern glass tanks.

                          You don't need a big-a** tetra pump that'll keep you up at night. A teeny tiny silent pump will do the job just fine.

                          I use regular airstones, but if you want to get fancy with the wood stones, that's great too.

                          Thanks for your vote of confidence. I may know my way around Dutch scaping, but I am a total moron when it comes to equipment, gear, and hardware. I know a turd from a turnip, as burr puts it, but I barely know a screwdriver from a wrench. There is a dude here in Hidden Hills who put in a 600-gal tank. Upstairs!!! A crane delivered tank thru a balcony. He turned his walk-in closet into a giant filtration unit with a drain in the middle. Walls of closet are completely water proof and he can hose down the walls! Total cost: only $100K. There is some serious expertise out there.
                          Thanks for the info... I tried to use a small pump, in the sump (not the tank), and it didn't degas that much... Instead I tried the big one like yours with a huge micro bubbles stone, and the degassing was incredible... But as I said, I ended up getting rid of that and just opening the top lid of the sump, and I get the same kind of degassing. Yes, sure, I could probably degas even more with the air pump... Maybe I will try and see...

                          The story about the 600gl tank upstairs is crazy, work in closed as a giant filter?! That sounds like some of the crazy dreams I sometimes do where my home is like a giant tank... Insane indeed!

                          About your last pictures: plants are fantastic as always, a pleasure to see

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                          • Try that Erio lineare for a Blyxa replacement.

                            If you powerheads have a venturi, you can use that in lieu of an air stone.

                            Note, this is important in a canister filter system than a Wet/dry, overflow etc.
                            The garage tanks are not canister and use aeration.

                            I tend to think the aeration effects on the surface of the water, breaks the water tension and allows CO2 to escape much better than ripple alone.
                            ADA suggest this by adjusting the lily pipe up some to aerate.

                            I also have better results when I do the same type of thing in the non CO2 tank.
                            Less surface tension breakage= worse looking tank, more film develops on the surface etc.

                            So it might just be the breakage of the tension and removal of that film layer, rather than the actual aeration.

                            www.BarrReport.com

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tom Barr View Post
                              Try that Erio lineare for a Blyxa replacement.

                              If you powerheads have a venturi, you can use that in lieu of an air stone.

                              Note, this is important in a canister filter system than a Wet/dry, overflow etc.
                              The garage tanks are not canister and use aeration.

                              I tend to think the aeration effects on the surface of the water, breaks the water tension and allows CO2 to escape much better than ripple alone.
                              ADA suggest this by adjusting the lily pipe up some to aerate.

                              I also have better results when I do the same type of thing in the non CO2 tank.
                              Less surface tension breakage= worse looking tank, more film develops on the surface etc.

                              So it might just be the breakage of the tension and removal of that film layer, rather than the actual aeration.
                              Yes, Erio lineare would look really good in front of the pink Bacopa. But that means moving it from where it currently is - between the AR Mini, Pantanal, Isoetes, and Hydrocotyle. Those 5 plants together on the left side of the tank is contrast nirvana IMO. I hate to break that up.

                              The Pantanal is small and green now because of the shade from the monster Nuphar. Otherwise it's all orange.





                              I think you're right on the surface tension and top layer breakage. This may be one of the reasons why sump filters are superior.

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                              • They also use those little surface internal Vuppa and the Ehiem skimmers, and even the Twinstar O2 electrolysis unit does this with the bubbles breaking at the surface.
                                www.BarrReport.com

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