Hi there
I have a few queries!!!

Have been succesfully doing EI now for 4 months and am interested in starting out some discus in my 40g tank.Tank is densely planted and looks great...
1. Is 40g too small for any number of dicus?
2. Would I continue to do 50% w/c?
3. Is 26degrees c ok or not....
any toughts would be appreciated

cheers
chris

From what I have read a 40 is to small for any discus. Double that volume and you can have some. I think you should read some forums about discus or maybe a discus keeper will chime in and give a more insightful response.

From my understanding discus require a lot of water changes with water low in TDS and higher temps. Extra work..... lot of it i think.

Maybe you could consider pearl gouramis or something different for a bigger species?

cazandchris I am a newbie to discus and planted tanks, but I have kept cichlids and some other tropical fish for several years now. I have a 46 gallon bowfront tank, and I have had my FOUR discus since March of this year...not to long, I know, but so far, so good. They didnt go into my display tank until May. I just starting doing EI, and the 50% weekly water changes, about 3 weeks ago. I was actually thinking I may do like 30% twice a week, like I used to....they do create a good bio load. What Ive read is 1 adult discus per 10gallons(40L) and they like highly oxygenated water

I have my tank set at 84F (28-29C)....when they are younger, the higher temps are more important, and you will have to feed more often, due to higher motabolism, and do more water changes cause of this, but once they get older, you can back off the temp, and the amount of feeds per day. When I first got them, I kept them in a 20gal. bare bottom and fed them up, and actually had the temp in that tank at about 87F (30+C)

Maybe if you have room, try to get your feel for them in a bare bottom tank first, before putting them in your planted tank. Then when they get bigger, you can upgrade to a bigger tank....thats my plan

I am a member of Discus Forums :: Index

Take a read there, and see what info you can gather....discus are beautiful fish, and they have a great personality

Hopefully someone else will chime in and give their opinions, and correct me if Im wrong with any of my advice....again, Im a newbie to these fish, so take any advice you can from me with a grain of salt...hahahaha

Good luck
Eric

Try 40-50% 2x a week water changes.

This works very well with EI and discus(or any fish! But is more work).
Add about 60% of the EI dosing due to the large bioload.
This assumes higher feeding and fuller sized fish.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Thanks Tom,


Does that mean if Im following Greg Watson's suggested EI dosing regime for a 40-60 gallon tank, using:

40-60 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/8 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 3/4 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only)
+/- 1/8 (10ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change

I should cut all those measurements down by 60%?

Ive been trying to grow my plants, and havent bee that successful so far, and I think this may help

Thanks for the input about the 2x/week water change schedule...I will do that from now on....or as close to it as I can

Eric

thanks for the help. Assuming I do 50% w/c 2x weekly. I'm guessing I should limit numbers to say 5 discus at the most.
cheers
chris

Well discus are considered "schooling fish" so in that aspect, the more the merrier, but four is a good number, and from what Ive read on the other forum I told you about, four is the least you should go with.

What other tankmates are you planning to keep in the 40 gallon, with 5 discus? They really dont like nitrates much over 20, so you may end up having to do more water changes then 50% 2x/week with 5 discus

Good Luck

I do not think it's the NO3's they do not like, rather, the NH4 that it starts off as.

If you add KNO3, they do not mind it. at 30ppm for long periods.
They bred for me at those levels(20-40ppm range).

But NH4 and feeding was closely watched.
Large water changes removes a lot of the NH4 directly.

That's why they do dailt water changes at the hatchery, not so much for NO3 which is pretty non toxic compared to NH4 which is extremely toxic, especially to fry.

Keep in mind what the Nitrogen starts off as and the end product.
If the NO3 builds, then you can remove it via a water change, but every mole of NO3 starts off as NH4 if it's from fish waste!!!

So 30ppm of NO3 via fish waste means 30ppm of NH4 for each week of build up!!!
Even if it's added at low levels, and converted quick.........that's a lot of stress.

Think about that for a bit and see if you think NO3 is the same via KNO3 vs fish waste. Read the reseach done on the aquatic toxicology for NO3 vs NH4 and NO2.

Also, the O2 levels will decline as the NH4 is converted, KNO3 has only a positive O2 effect due to plant growth.

Plants have a limited capacity to assimilate NH4. They are very good at it otherwise, but if you exceed their ability to sequestered it, then you end up with algae if you have enough.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Thanks Tom, I have read so many conflicting reports about the nitrates and there levels with discus, before coming here.

I have to admit I am good for overfeeding, and Im still working on it.

I guess I was always under the impression that once the filter is established the only thing left to watch is the NO3. I know NO3 is the least toxic out of the NH4, NO2, and NO3.

My tank usually reads 20-40ppm of NO3, and I always felt the plants didnt use the nitrogen properly...so I guess I really need to watch my feeding from now on

Sorry cazandchris if I gave bad advice....Im now going to do 40% 2x/week WC's

Thanks for the info Tom.

I ttypical systems, NO3 is a good indicator, but when we dose KNO3 and have plants, that changes the rules.

No one adds KNO3 for the fish alone without plants after all

Yes, they school and behave far far better the more of them there are.
Smaller tanks, fewer fish?
The runts will get picked on and hen pecked.

That influences behavior, stuff like that makes behavior determination based on CO2, NO3 or other things far more diffilcult because the fish often are stressed or have poor diets etc.

When folks can grow a huge mongo Discus and have plants, then we can talk

As that falsifies such claims...........