Here is where my inherent laziness is helping out. The glass cover on the tank is very water spotted and the bulbs are at least 5 years old. Those 2 factors must be dimming the light enough that the plants are growing quite well and algae is minimal. In fact the only algae is some green spot on the anubias' leaves and some on the glass. And the algae on the glass is slowly being eliminated by a horde of snails. I had been going to get some clown plecos to help with the algae and general clean up, but if I do now I'll need to feed them.

I've had enough success with this technique that I'm tempted to try it on my 150 gallon pond. How do you calculate the watts per gallon for a pond that is outside in the shade of a tree? I wonder if adding some equilibrium and phosphate would be good for the plants in the pond. I think less nitrate would be needed as there is enough debris in the form of leaves and plant matter to provide some of that.

What do you think? Would a form of this technique work in a pond?

All,

I would like to convert my 20 gallon from excel to non-CO2. It is a 20 gallon tall. I have a Coralife Power Compact Lighting Fixture. It is rated at 36 watts. I have it raised 6 inches above the water.

Does this sound like a reasonable amount of light for this task?

The plants have done well so far. They do begin to grow towards the front of the tank as they get taller though. All weeds. Bacopa, Hygro, Ludwigia, and some hairgrass.

Thanks for the input!

Also, I can not find a place to purchase Leonardite in Philadelphia, PA. I have tried the major chains and a few nurseries. Any ideas? Hydroponics stores? Finally found a place. Hydroponics store in Bristol PA. They used to be called Harvest Moon. 212 Bristol Pike Bristol, Pennsylvania 19007

First post here at TBR...Hi Everyone.

For some time now, I've been on the site reading this thread with a lot of interest as I have been running a soil substrate (El Natural, NPT or whatever you'd like to call it) tank for several years and the low maintenance and lack of water changes are exactly what I am looking for. However, as pointed out, it can be very messy when you want to change things around and uproot.

I decided to sign up and ask a few questions as I am in the process of building a new 75G tank and I really think this may be the way I go with that tank.

I live near Toronto Canada and I am having a hard time tracking down DB (leonardite), made contact with the MFR and it seems it's discontinued. Can anyone make any alternate product recomendations? I have found a couple products that seem similar to my uninitated eye: Humalite Mini Granule & Soil Mender Humate. Any thoughts or experience with these 2 products?

I know from reading earlier posts in this thread that peat will work too, but it seems it would be not much better than soil in terms of mess - can someone confirm this?

Last question, maybe since we're not trying to keep soil aerobic underneath gravel it's not as important, but I don't see any specific reccomendations in terms of substrate depth. This is an important point for me as even 2" of Eco Complete in a 75G aquarium is a significant purchase. Is that enough over top of say 1/2" leonardite (or 1" peat if I can't source leonardite)?

I suggest forgetting about the Diamond Black. I had some problems with it leaching brown water into the tank. Just use mineralized natural soil, preferably a soil with some clay in it.

If I were doing a tank as big as 75 gallons I would be reluctant to use a layered substrate of any kind. Once you layer the substrate it is very hard to reuse that substrate later on if you need to do some major changes where removing the substrate is desirable. The amount of substrate in a 75 gallon tank can be expensive to replace when that happens. Layered substrates are not essential for good plant growth.

I found a similar product at the local garden center called Soil Activator/Ground conditioner. A quick look on the back label stated " derived from Leonardite" I bought a bag and it's been in a non-carbon tank for 2-3 years. Then put some in a CO2 tank with Eco-Complete about a year ago. both are doing fine. I agree with Vaughn about the layering of substrates, they can be a mess if disturbed. The older tank has a light colored gravel and if I attempt to move anything, the Leonardite will surface. But in the Eco-Complete tank the colors are close so I move plant as needed. You will get tannins in the water from Leonardite, but if left undisturbed its almost goes away.



Most will agree that a light dusting of peat in any new tank is OK. Mulm should also be added(I've done both). The point is a bacteria culture(mulm) and some decomposition(peat) for the bacterial to feed upon initially.


Don't use that much peat A light dusting is all that is needed. You also don't want to over do the Leonardite either, a 1/2" or so would be fine.
Substrates vary in thickness from 1" to 4", maybe more. Depends on what type of plants you will have and hardscapes you may want to make. For instance, some Crypts would need more than 1" where stem plant would do fine.
Eco-Complete and Flourite are inert and can nearly last forever. So the initial investment will last a long time. IMO it's money well spent.

Good Luck

Thanks for the quick replies/advice - as you may have expected though, it spawned a few new questions...


That sounds easy enough - I'm quite comfortable with the soil under gravel method. I assume you mean something like AaronT's "recipe" on APC? If so, I guess something a little more concentrated and refined in a thinner layer might help keep muck down come uprooting time? Doesn't really get me away from the soil mess in the end I guess...


I'm a bit confused, it sounded like Tom was recommending a thick layer of peat in this post - did I misunderstand?

In terms of substrate depth, my tank will be heavy on crypts and other non-stem plants, I'm currently running about 2-1/2" including the soil and crypts are booming - so a thinner layer should be OK (saves a bag or 2 of Eco as well!).

Sorry if this is a dumb question - but one last bit of confusion, if as you indicated, Eco and Fluorite are inert, there would be no advatage to them over regular gravel. The Caribsea description mentions "...iron, calcium...25 other elements..." if Eco was inert as I understand the word, it wouldn't provide anything to the plants would it?

I've done the soil, dirt cube, clay pots, peat, Leonardite thing(s) All work OK. But you can get the same mileage out of EC, FL, ect... without the mess. Just my personal experience. I haven't tried ADA AS, but have some when ready.



I personally would not put soil under EC. When the soil is exhausted, you will never get the EC separated from the soil when it's time to recharge. I would save up for 3"-4" of EC to use in your tank and omit the soil. It will be worth the wait.


Good question!

The difference between quartz/plain gravel and Eco-Complete/Fluorite is the porosity or the CEC (cation exchange capacity). EC and FL have more area for bacterial to colonize, and nutrient retention which can then be released back to the plant roots. This is a very generic definition, someone may like to elaborate. IMO EC and FL are good products and they outperform plain gravel. I use all three and see a difference.

I think one would get the same or better results by using low-nutrient topsoil under inert quartz gravel, at a much lower cost.

Bill

Hi Bill,

Yes I agree that initially the cost will be less. Looking long term, I believe the investment is worth it. I've have both these type systems running and (I) much prefer the single component substrate vs. additives that deplete and need replacing. I'm not saying that this is the only way to go, and you have shown another good way. Just putting options out there

All,

Recently setup a 20 gallon non-CO2 tank. The tank has been setup for 4 weeks now and has been showing 0 ppm Ammonia for 1 week after cycling. I have been doing water changes often due to yellow water. I know that with a non-CO2 tank we are not supposed to change the water in order to maintain a consistent CO2 level; however this is the only way I have been able to keep the water clear.

I have 36 Watts of PC lighting.
3/4" of leonardite capped by 2" of Onyx Sand.
Plenty of plants.

Is the yellow water due to algae outbreaks, or is the leonardite causing the discoloration?

Should I continue to do water changes, or do I need to stop these immediately? Any other suggestions to keep the water clear? I have a HOB filter rater for 60 gallons running in the tank. It has plenty of carbon and zeolite for filtration.

Plants looks quite healthy. Some algae on lower leaves that is easily rubbed off.

Thanks,
John