Hi John,


I found this to be to much light. I also at first tried 36W of PC. Eventually settled on T8 lighting.


This combo should work great. I have two similar tanks one of which is near three years old. Followed Tom recommendation for ferts and change water at 6-8 months.


It's the Leonardite that's turning the water yellow. This will subside somewhat in time. I wouldn't worry about it, WC will not take the yellowing away.


This will work great and yes stop the WC's. It will take some time to settle in so be patient. Take a look at your light options.

Good Luck

Hello I just started reading this thread and
I will continue, but I had a question for Tom.
I am thinking about going Non C02. I have
eco-complete in my tank for about 2 years
now. Should I consider removing it and
going with the sand, mulm, peat and leonardite.
Or is the eco-complete in a suitable state still.
I guess the question is how long does eco-complete
last.

Thanks,

Jeff

All,

My understanding for the non-CO2 tanks is that water changes are not necessary and are counter productive because they will temporarily elevate the CO2 level. This causes algae outbreaks because algae can more quickly adapt to the opportunistic elevation of CO2.

What if we turn off the tank lights immediately following a water change? If there is no light for 24 hours will the algae not have the ability to take advantage of the CO2 elevation? If plants do not use CO2 at night (lights out) can the same be said for algae?

Will 24 hours be enough time for the CO2 to reduce back down to typical non-CO2 tank levels? What about 48 hours?

Thanks,
John

Seems like a good idea.
I think CO2 is some of it, if not a large part.

However, like Rubsico levels, NO3 uptake, K+ uptake and other uptake enzyme can be affected and cause issues at such slowed rates of growth when a water change is down. Disturbing the sediment and pulling spores up and NH4 may also be caused by water changes(this is true for any planted tank).

Hard to say what effect the others might have vs just the CO2.
If it's just CO2, we should be able to do what you suggest and not have an issue.

I suspect there's more to it, but the CO2 is the larger reason.
Plants do not take up CO2 at night, only in the day light.


Regards,
Tom Barr

I'm setting up a NON-CO2 75 gal that's 21 inches deep. I was getting ready to buy the 2x55 watt Bright Kit from AHSupply.com, but after reading some of the later posts on this thread, I've started to doubt the idea.

AH claims a 162% light output compared to standard reflectors. Also, the 55's are compact fluorescents, which I've assumed means they're T5's (one more thing that would be nice to have clarified for me).

Going by these stats, this setup would produce 178 (relative) watts of lighting, which would equal around 2.4 watts per my 75 gallons.

I'm looking for a simple answer: Should I buy this light kit, or should I go with the 80 watt T12 setup I have over it right now? (I thought that T12 lighting might be too weak for the 21 inch depth) On the first page of this thread back in 2005, Tom had said that this exact light setup would be just right for NON-CO2, but based on some of the newer posts, I figured that maybe Tom back then hadn't factored in the T5's strength or the 162% efficiency of AH's reflector design.

I want to grow Dwarf Baby Tears (Hemianthus callitrichoides) and Dwarf Hairgrass (Eleocharis acicularis) in a thick carpet covering the whole floor. What light setup should I go with?

Thanks for your time in this, anyone who has an opinion.

Lots of us have opinions

AH Supply light kits are not T5 lights. True, they are about 5/8 inch in diameter, but they are not single tube lights, so they can't have the super reflectors that T5 bulbs can use. And, T5 lights are brighter to start with. The general rules about watts per gallon are based on AH Supply quality lights and reflectors, so 110 watts of AHS light is just 110 watts.

Your tank depth is a significant factor. The measurements I took using Tom's PAR meter demonstrate that the light intensity, with AHS light kits drops approximately proportional to the distance from the bulbs. So, a 21 inch depth vs a 16 inch depth causes a the intensity to be about 16/21, or about 75% of what it would be at 16 inches. All of that suggests to me that 110 watts on a 21 inch deep, 75 gallon tank is low enough to go with non-CO2.

Unfortunately, HC loves CO2, so while it might do ok with the low light intensity, I doubt it will do ok without CO2. Marsilea is more likely to work as a carpet plant.

Awesome, thanks for the response.

As for what plants I can grow, what about Glossostigma? About halfway down page three of this thread, Tom mentions that with the added Seachem and KNO3/KH2PO4 one should be able to grow a carpet of Glosso using the described low light, no CO2 method. Unless I understood his statement wrong.

Anyone have a comment on this?

Thanks again for the quick response,

Joey

I tried and was unable to grow glosso with low light. There may have been other reasons why it didn't grow well, but the tank was definitely low light and Excel was used.

Hi guys,

Thanks for replies and suggestions.

I have another question to put out there. So basically what I've come to understand through this thread is that in this method the CO2 necessary for plant growth comes from the breaking down of organic matter by the tank's bacteria population. This organic matter gets added daily by the fish food and waste.

Tom's method includes adding a layer of either peat and /or leonardite in the substrate to add some extra organic matter. What I'd like to ask is that some of the more knowledgeable guys take a look at coco fiber and give their opinions as to whether this would be an acceptable alternative to peat moss in our particular application. It's got a neutral PH as opposed to peats acidic one, and it's supposed to hold up for a longer period of time before decomposing. Here is some more detailed info on it: Coco Fiber Growing Medium

It sounds pretty good so I think I'm gonna give it a try unless someone spots a problem with it that I overlooked. It is 3 in the morning (and no I don't have any idea why I'm still up researching these things) so oversights are very possible.

Thanks,

Joey

Hi Joey,
I have used this outside the aquarium as a growing medium for Whites and Grindals but not in the aquarium. I don't know if there is a negative affect or not. I do know that you will want to be very conservative with peat products where a light dusting is all that is needed. Both Leonardite and Peat will yellow the water(tannins). I am setting up a third non-carbon tank and will forgo the Leonardite and use mulm and a dusting of peat only. The previous two tanks have both Leonardite and Peat.