I've been reading about excel and would like to try it out. Tom refers often to low co2 as a significant problem with respect to algae, particularly bba. If algae occurs in an excel tank what would the strategy be to fight algae ? I believe that the carbon in excel can be used by higher plants, but is not accessible to algae. Is this correct ? If this is correct, would it be advisable to limit water changes since the co2 introduced might "wake up the algae"

Henry Hatch

I do not think you will have much algae in an Excel treated tank, if so, add more Excel and do more water changes etc. Not more than 2x the suggested dosing after a water change though.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Does the dosing level of 1.5x rec for exel include the dosing level recommended by Seachem after a major water change ? I just did my first water change on a new excel tank and dosed at 1.5 the rec dose and the water turned cloudy. Fish and plants look ok at the moment. Did I overdose ?

Henry Hatch

I have done numerous 1.5X water change dosages on my 45 gallon tank, with no problems at all, other than that the vals didn't do well with that. No cloudiness at all.

Hi,

I have been using Flourish and Excel from day one. The plant are rampant and algae is no were to be seen.

I like the simple approach and dont like too much pipework in the tank so the non co2 method works for me.

Hi,

I'm getting very confused here with the use of the Estimative Index and this so called "Non-CO2" method. I understand that in the Estimative Index you want to do 50% water changes every week to control the nutrient level in the tank since you're dosing heavily every week. What I don't understand is that you mentioned in the "Intro to non CO2 Excel tanks" article it seems like you were dosing regularly but yet only changing the water once a month. I think Tom Barr also said that you shouldn't change the water that regularly if you're using a non-CO2 tank. Isn't that kind of bad to not do regular water changes?

I have a 10 gallon tank with the following setup

5 dwarf cichlids
2 CF 10 Watt bulbs (From Walmart)
sand with flourite base
Plants: Bacopa, Crypts, anubias, Java Fern, Vals, and Chainsword

I'm started with the Estimative Index, the plants grew but I also got a whole bunch hair algae that I'm constantly fighting now. I am switching the Excel instead of CO2 hoping that it clear out the hair algae but I'm not quite sure how much to dose anymore or how frequently I should do water changes. Given the size of the tank, if I don't do water changes at least every 2 weeks my fish will not be very happy.

So can anyone give me any advice here? I'm not looking for super fast growth. I'm just looking for a way to keep my plants healthy and algae free which currently I am doing very well. Also, can someone point me to this "Non-CO2 Methods" article? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Thanks.

-Tom

In a non CO2 method, I can estimate the growth rates/uptake deamnd and add just a little less than that.

None will build up.
Even if it does, simply do not dose for 2-3 weeks will purge any left overs.
You will see the plant growth slow and various other changes occur.
As growth is slow, so is the response time to problems, deficiencies and their appearance. So you can respond by adding a bit more ferts as needed.

We are not dosing many nutrients either, we are still estimating, but on the lower end, preventing things from running out for too long.....for this slow growth rate.

The rate is much slower so we can use and get away with management methods would could not using EI etc. Likewise, not doing any water changes and expecting the fish to supply everything to a CO2 enriched higher light tank would be a lot more trouble.

They both work based on the rate of plant growth as does the dosing........... and the methods used to achieve that.

A non CO2 tank grows about 5-10X slower depending on the species.
Fish will help/do it all for nutrients but topping off a little KNO3/GH/KH2PO4/Trace every so often and then not dosing all week etc will help, espeically with pickier species. The same is true for lean CO2 enriched tanks where folks try and run things supper lean without much source of nutrients.
In the non CO2 tanks, the plants have all week(or more) to use them up.

We just a small amount of a balanced nutrient mix every so often to keep them all semi happy (happier than with only fish waste and sediment).

Fish food does not have a lot of K+. That can limit things in such tanks and there really are no good source in the sediment for K+.

Regards,
Tom Barr

I've been using Cidex(2.5% glutaraldehyde) instead of Seachem Excel in the past 7 weeks in my non-CO2 tank. It is a non-CO2 experiment for some difficult red plants. I add 5 ml Cidex every day and 5 ml Seachem flourish once weekly to my 42 G tank. The result is tremendous.


Four weeks ago, I also planted L. pantanal, which also grows well in this non-CO2 tank. KH = 3.5 dKH, GH = 6 dGH.

Nice results P,

Still, a good balance between light and Excel/like dosing is required to achieve a higher level of growth. You also have a substrate in there, and it has what in it?

This also addresses issues with red color, clearly less light and good nutrient supply can provide good color. Many do not believe me. But then they also do not try it either...........

It also makes getting such color and keep it easier in the process.
Careful dosing of the Excel etc can provide good results, it' has a 1/2 life of about 11 hours and should be dosed early in the day.

While the roots are growing well in the L perunesis, Hydrilla root formation is immediately arrested using Excel.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Initially it was a high light EI tank with pressurized CO2, but I converted it into a natural planted tank about 10 months ago. I placed some potting soils into the substrate. Four months ago the older leaves of R. macrandra, L. aromatica and E. stellata showed brown dots and these dots were growing outward with time and the larger spots looked like the plant were rotting. I assumed that it was pottasium deficiency and have tried K2HPO4, but the symptoms persisted. The growth had really started to pick up only after I've switched to Excel.