Fertilizers for a non-C02 tank

[Francesco]

Hi everyone,
Here in Italy we don't have dry fertilizers, so I'm asking you if I can use this set of Dennerle fertilizers ( http://www.zooplus.it/shop/pesci/cura_piante_acquario/fertilizzanti_acquario/fertilizzanti_dennerle/118785 ) which I already have.
The composition of the fertilizers are:
E15: 14.04% K20; 3.57% Fe; 1.08% Mn
V30: 1% K20; 0.3018% MgO; 0.021% Boron; 0.006% Cu, 0.306% Fe, 0.122% Mn, 0.012 Mo, 0.006% Zn, 0.002% Co, 0.002% Nichel, 0.003% Li, 0.002% Al, 0.0015% Va
for S7 I didn't found anything.
Thank you! :)

Also, here's a picture of my tank right now:
http://i40.tinypic.com/20l1o9x.jpg
Is it enough planted to use this method? will it be alright to add some cryptocoryne and a vallisneria?
Thank you!
Francesco

edit: some information about my tank you might find useful: it's a 10 gallon, 1,4 wpg, non c02 tank, with anubias, microsorium, two echinodorus and hygrophila polysperma. I wanted to add a carpeting plant but I don't know what could be good. If you want some other information just ask!

[Htomassini]

Crypts are very adaptable but do feed off the substrate. What is the substrate in the your tank?



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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=26.140333,-80.132564

[Francesco]

I have this one called "Vigor": http://www.geopetfood.com/geoshop/2-vigor-substrato-fertile-5-lt.html
a layer of peat moss, and about 5 cm of gravel.

[Biollante]

Hi,

Welcome!:glee:

With the substrate, the Dennerle should be okay, low light, no CO2, perhaps over feed the fish now and then for a little extra Nitrate.:)

Biollante

[Francesco]

ok thanks! How have I to dose it? on the box there is written to use 3 ml of V30 and 1 tablet of E15. I'm using half the dose they say. What do you suggest me?

[aquabillpers]

I think you could get the same or better results by using plain topsoil under a layer of 2mm - 3 mm gravel, and you wouldn't have to dose "V30" or "E15", whatever they are, either.

I suggest that you add more plants and about 10 inches of small fish, and, as Biolante suggested, feed them well.

Good luck!

Bill

[Biollante]

Hi,

I am with Bill, top soil, the cheap stuff, or from your garden (assuming no pesticide use) then add more plants, more fish!:glee:

I think adding crypts will be fine they are good low light root feeders that will take over. Crypts will appreciate soil. :)

The Vallisneria tend to like brighter light, do well in harder water and do not need CO2. So the Vals are a closer call.

If you do not want to add top soil:nonchalance:, I would continue with what you are doing. Though I would still add plants and fish!:glee:

Ask yourself, how do the plants look?

Let the plants dictate, with low light and no added CO2 you really should not need much.:encouragement:

Biollante

[Biollante]

Hi,

Sorry I missed the substrate thing;:o it appears to be quite rich, though a little mud never hurt.:rolleyes:

Biollante

[Tom Barr]

The sediment is like ADA.
The split aquascape is a nice change for non CO2 designs, and has some interesting potential

A few things could be done here:

dwarf harigrass could be used for that region, or dwarf Clover, or some other hardy foreground plant, Crypt parva perhaps and you could use seAchem Excel, I think the brand in the EU is "Easy Carbo".

You could add easy carbo for 3 months or so..........dose a small amount as suggested in the non CO2 articles, basically EI but 10-20X less.
After the plants grow in and doing well, you stop adding the Easy carbo and add less of the fertilizer(about 1/2 as much again, so 20-40X less than EI).
Once you stop adding the Easy carbo refrain from water changes, add enough for evaporation only.

If anything is NOT easy to understand, let me know.

[Francesco]

The sediment is like ADA.
The split aquascape is a nice change for non CO2 designs, and has some interesting potential

A few things could be done here:

dwarf harigrass could be used for that region, or dwarf Clover, or some other hardy foreground plant, Crypt parva perhaps and you could use seAchem Excel, I think the brand in the EU is "Easy Carbo".

You could add easy carbo for 3 months or so..........dose a small amount as suggested in the non CO2 articles, basically EI but 10-20X less.
After the plants grow in and doing well, you stop adding the Easy carbo and add less of the fertilizer(about 1/2 as much again, so 20-40X less than EI).
Once you stop adding the Easy carbo refrain from water changes, add enough for evaporation only.

If anything is NOT easy to understand, let me know.
First of all, thank you for considering my tank nice :)
Well, I'm afraid the substrate I added is not enough: the instruction say to add 5 liters every 100 liters, and I added about 1 liter (I think :D) in my 40 liters. However I added peat moss.
Ragarding the carpeting plant, I've just bought online some crypto parva, thanks!
What does EI mean? I'm sorry I'm not used to english advanced online forum :D
So I have to add the fertilizers following the dose on the instructions when using excel (which I didn't understand how to dose) and when I stop I start again dosing half? The Dennerle instructions say to add the main fertilizers only every two weeks... will it be enogh?
Also, while using excel (yes, even in italy it's called "excel") I have to perform regural water changes of about 30% every week?
Thanks again and sorry for all the questions.
Edit: I have also seachem phosphorus, which I had bought because the phosphate levels in my tank was too low. Do you suggest me adding it?


I suggest that you add more plants and about 10 inches of small fish, and, as Biolante suggested, feed them well.
ok thank you! I will add more fish as soon as I get more plants. I was thinking of adding otos, since the tank is already cycled. What do you think?
What is topsoil? Have I really to add it now? It would be boring to remove the grave all over again :s

[Francesco]

ok, I read on the forum what EI means. However I still don't understand how to dose the fertilizers. What do you mean by saying "EI but 10-20X less"?
Also, I didn't understand how to use the calculator. What does the graphic means? I have to dose the fertilizer daily, following the dose that the graphic shows for every day?
Sorry again for all of the questions, but I really want to learn this method.
Today I dosed 50% of the standard dennerle dosing and I added 1mL of excel. When I plant some other plants I will increase the dose to 100%. Am I right?

[Francesco]

So, I added some crypt parva, pogostemon helferi and ceratophyllum demersus. I also added 5 otocinclus. Some pictures of my tank before adding otos:
2906

2907

2908

I'm dosing excel 1 mL everyday, and also the dennerle fertilizer following this program:
0.6 of V30 / half tablet of E15 (potassium, iron and micro nutrients) depending on the week (one week I dose V30 and the other one E15)
0.6 of V7 every week
1.25 of seachem phosphorus every week.
The plants are doing well, I'm only worried about the slow growth of the crypto parva, I don't know if it ever melts and carpets.
I'm planning to add about 10 espei rasboras.
What do you think?

[Francesco]

can sombedoy help me, please?

[aquabillpers]

can sombedoy help me, please?

Well, Francesco, since you asked . . .

I think that you are making this much harder than it need be.

With a good substrate, some fish, and adequate lighting, you don't need to add any fertilizer at all. The fish will provide what the tank needs.

In fact, if you do manage to figure out a dosing scheme, I would bet that you will not see significantly better results and run the risk of becoming an algae farmer.

The main problem I have with my non-fertilized, non-CO2 tanks is finding plants that don't need too frequent pruning.

Good luck!

Bill

[Biollante]

Hi,

Crypto parva is just a slow grower, with or without CO2; it is a good sturdy plant.:encouragement:

Crypto parva is a root feeder and does spend quite a bit of time developing a root system.:)

Root feeding is probably a good idea.

I am with Bill, while I do not think it hurts to add a bit of fertilizers, I do not think you will need much.:cool:

Biollante

[Tom Barr]

So, I added some crypt parva, pogostemon helferi and ceratophyllum demersus. I also added 5 otocinclus. Some pictures of my tank before adding otos:
2906

2907

2908

I'm dosing excel 1 mL everyday, and also the dennerle fertilizer following this program:
0.6 of V30 / half tablet of E15 (potassium, iron and micro nutrients) depending on the week (one week I dose V30 and the other one E15)
0.6 of V7 every week
1.25 of seachem phosphorus every week.
The plants are doing well, I'm only worried about the slow growth of the crypto parva, I don't know if it ever melts and carpets.
I'm planning to add about 10 espei rasboras.
What do you think?

How large is the aquarium? Liters?

[Francesco]

thanks for the reply. So are you suggesting me not to dose fertilizers at all? What about iron, potassium and all the nutrients that aren't in tap water? Also, I've been giving the fish a lot of food to increase NO3 but unfortunately the tank now is full of snails and I start to see some algae :S
Also, the Pogostemon aren't doing very well, and I'm afraid they will be covered by algae... do you suggest taking them off the tank?


How large is the aquarium? Liters?
it's a 10 gallon (40 liters) and about 50 cm large. I saw some very very little algae growth on the white gravel on the front. Should I decrease the fertilizers? Also, crypto parva lost a lot of leaves, and the pogostemon is almost gone 29182919

[aquabillpers]

thanks for the reply. So are you suggesting me not to dose fertilizers at all? What about iron, potassium and all the nutrients that aren't in tap water? Also, I've been giving the fish a lot of food to increase NO3 but unfortunately the tank now is full of snails and I start to see some algae :S
Also, the Pogostemon aren't doing very well, and I'm afraid they will be covered by algae... do you suggest taking them off the tank?

Well, yes I am. <g>

The nutrients that you mention will come from fish food via the fish, plus from the water and the substrate.

And from the snails, of course.

Bill

[Francesco]

ok thanks! I will try. What about excel? Do I have to stop dosing it too?

[Francesco]

please answer! I really don'y know what to do! I'm afraid that if I stop using excel I will cause an algae bloom. Also, I want to make the crypto grow a little bit before I stop using it, but I don't know how to dose the fertilisers (I have some green spot algae now)

[Francesco]

I have changed the water 2 days ago and I haven't dosed the fertilizers yet. Maybe, using Excel, the 1,5 wpg aren't enough. I could add another T5 to bring the wpg up to 2,3. What do you thing? Maybe there has been too much excel/fertilisers and too little lighting.
here is a picture of the algae I see growing on some little stones all over the tank: 2920

[PapstBenediktXVI]

Hello

As I understand it Seachem Phosphorus is dissolved KH2PO4. I guess if Easy Life products are easily available in Italy you could use Easy Life Fosfo and maybe Nitro too. They keep the ingridients a secret but I'd guess it's the same thing

Cheers
Papst

[Biollante]

Hi,

I think the Easy-Life Fosfo probably just fine, though I do not like people who are afraid to list chemicals.

I can based on the label assure you it is not KH2PO4 or K2HPO4 or anything with Potassium.:)

My best guess based on the label is Diphosphorus Pentoxide, P2O5, a common desiccant. :cool:

Biollante