A Primer for Pressurized CO2

[Darkblade48]

So, there have been a lot of threads (it seems) lately regarding pressurized CO2. Hopefully, this primer will help alleviate any fears that people have when starting to delve into CO2 as it can be quite intimidating at first. In addition, hopefully this primer will answer some of the most commonly asked questions regarding pressurized CO2.

As this thread will be discussing how to set up a pressurized CO2 system, advantages/disadvantages of using a pressurized setup versus a DIY (yeast) CO2 system will not be discussed in this primer. For more information, please take a look here:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/107303-newbie-setup.html#5

On to pressurized CO2!

First, when people refer to pressurized CO2, we often read that we will need a "regulator" or a "regulator build." What does this mean exactly? This term is thrown around quite loosely in the aquarium hobby, but a pressurized CO2 system consists of more than just a regulator.

Here are the essential components you will need:

1) A CO2 cylinder
CO2 cylinders come in various sizes. They are often used in paintball guns (usually sold as 20 oz cans). They also come in 2.5, 5, 10 and 20 lb sizes (larger sizes such as 50 lb tanks do exist, but they are quite large and bulky, and are not commonly sold outside of specialty applications).

CO2 tanks come with a fitting known as a CGA320 fitting, which is standard in North America. Europe and Asia use different industrial standards. Paintball tanks, however, do not come with this fitting, and come with a pin depression type valve. More on this will follow below.

Many people believe that getting a small, paintball CO2 tank is "cheaper", however, this is not usually the case. Regulators (see below) often come with CGA320 fittings (or can be adapted to such). However, as paintball tanks do not contain this CGA320 fitting, normal regulators cannot be used, and you must purchase either a special regulator with the required fitting, or look around for a paintball tank to CGA320 adapter (often, quite difficult to find). In addition, refill costs for CO2 tanks are generally not much different. The refill cost for (say) a 5 lb tank and 10 lb tank may only be a few dollars different. For example, I can get my 10 lb tank refilled for $17.50, while a 20 oz paintball tank may cost $5 to refill. This means that the cost per pound of gas is more for a smaller tank. In addition, the larger the CO2 tank, the longer you can go without refilling the tank, etc. It can be quite a hassle to drive out and refill the tank, depending on where you live. The general piece of advice is to get the largest tank that you can afford and/or is feasible for the space that you have.

[Darkblade48]

The next piece of essential equipment we will require for a pressurized CO2 setup is the regulator.

A regulator takes the tank pressure of the CO2 tank (normally at ~850 PSI or more, depending on the ambient temperature) and reduces it to a lower pressure.

We normally look for a regulator with two gauges. This means there are two pressure dials. The first pressure dial (high pressure dial) will indicate the pressure in the CO2 tank (i.e. the amount of CO2 that is remaining in the tank). The second pressure dial (low pressure dial, also known as the delivery pressure), will be the pressure that the regulator is bringing the CO2 down to. This is usually set anywhere from 5-20 PSI, depending on the size of your tank, and the desired bubble rate.

Sometimes, we also here the term dual stage used. Note that dual stage and dual gauge are not the same. These terms are sometimes used interchangeably, but this is incorrect. Dual stage refers to an additional body within the regulator that allows the pressure to be dropped in two stages, hence the name. Here are two figures that show the differences between the two:

Single stage regulator:
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7934/victorsinglestageregula.jpg (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/victorsinglestageregula.jpg/)

Dual stage regulator:
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3630/victortwostageregulator.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/i/victortwostageregulator.jpg/)

As the finer details are beyond the scope of this primer, more information regarding the differences can be found over at the Barr Report, where Left C and I are quite active as well.

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6470-Dual-Stage-Regulators

There has been a lot of debate over whether a single stage regulator or a dual stage regulator is best. There are often stories about people encountering "end of tank dump" (when the CO2 tank pressure begins to drop, there is sometimes a phenomenon in which all the CO2 will suddenly rush out of the tank, ending up in your aquarium and subsequently gassing all your fish to death) when using a single stage regulator. Some people will blame this on the regulator, while others will point out that it was a combination of a single stage regulator and a poor needle valve. Yet others will point out that despite having a single stage regulator and a sub-standard needle valve, they have yet to encounter "end of tank dump".

In the end, whether you purchase a single or dual stage regulator is up to you; dual stage regulators are the "premium" regulators, and will work reliably for our purposes. Single stage regulators will also work well for our purposes, and are often cheaper than dual stage regulators (more on this later).

Some good brands that I recommend:

Single stage regulators:
Cornelius
Micromatic
Victor

Dual stage regulators:
Concoa
Matheson
Victor

Finally, when purchasing your CO2 regulator, regardless whether it is a single or a dual stage regulator, be sure that you have the correct fitting (CGA320), or else it will not fit the CO2 tank. Sometimes, you may be able to find cheap regulators on eBay (more on this below) that do not have the correct fitting (most commonly found are those with a CGA580 fitting, used for nitrogen ). If this is the case, you can take off the fitting and replace with the appropriate CGA320 fitting.

[Darkblade48]

The next piece of equipment that is essential is the needle/metering valve.

A needle valve is a piece of equipment that takes the delivery pressure of the regulator and further drops the pressure down to the very fine flow rate that we require for aquarium purposes (i.e. we often refer to our flow rates as "bubbles per second"). A metering valve is the "high end" needle valve.

Needle valves work by restricting the flow of gas via a small needle (hence the name) that can be opened/closed via a screw/caliper handle. In general, higher quality needle valves/metering valves will have allow finer control by having more threads. This means that it takes more turns of the handle to change the flow of CO2, meaning you get finer resolution (i.e. if you turn a needle valve 1 turn and get an increase from 1 bubble per second to 10 bubbles per second, you would have a hard time adjusting your flow. However, if you turn another needle valve 1 turn and only get an increase from 1 bubble to 2 bubbles per second, you can achieve much finer control).

A good quality needle/metering valve is essential. This is definitely one piece of equipment you do not want to be stingy on.

Here are some brands that I recommend:
Fabco (particularly the NV55)*
Ideal (particularly the 52-1-11)**
Swagelok (many various models available)
Parker (also many various models available)

For those that are more technically inclined, have a look at the thread over at the Barr Report (linked above), as it discusses the finer points of a quality needle/metering valve (i.e. best Cv to look for, etc)

One brand of needle valve that I would strongly advise against is the Clippard needle valve (Part #: MNV-4K2) . While it is quite cheap (perhaps $18, if ordered online), many users have lamented that the quality of this particular needle valve leaves much to be desired. A common problem with this needle valve is that it "floats." This means that while you set the CO2 flow rate to a particular setting one day, the next day (or perhaps within a few hours!), the CO2 flow rate will change noticeably, requiring more fiddling on your part. This means that while you set your CO2 to an "optimal" flow rate one day, the flow might stop the next day, or it might be so high that it will gas all your fish to death. Definitely, this is something you want to avoid, so do not be stingy on a quality needle valve.

*Note 1: The Fabco NV55 contains #10/32 port fittings. These are not your standard fittings and adapters cannot be purchased at the hardware store. The setup I would recommend is to have #10/32 to hose barb fittings and not trying to find #10/32 to (say) 1/8" NPT adapters. This is because attempting to attach the Fabco NV55 to the regulator is not a good idea. The Fabco NV55 is quite a heavy needle valve, and the #10/32 fittings are quite small and fragile, so a slight bump may cause the fitting to break. With the hose barb adapters, you can run this needle valve in-line.

**Note 2: This particular Ideal metering valve has 1/8" female NPT ports on both ends. Other models exist, and I can also forward you the PDF/website with the particular details if you require/PM me.

[Darkblade48]

Here now, are the optional parts of a pressurized CO2 setup. While the aforementioned CO2 tank, regulator and needle valve are absolutely essential, the following pieces of equipment, while totally optional, are highly recommended.

These are:

4) Solenoid
5) Bubble Counter
6) Diffuser
7) Drop Checker
8) Miscellaneous equipment (check valve, airline tubing)
9) "Luxury" items (pH controller)

Let us begin with 4) Solenoid

A solenoid is an electronically controlled valve that opens/closes depending on whether electricity is flowing through it or not. For pressurized CO2 purposes, we normally use a "normally closed" solenoid. This means that when there is no electricity, the solenoid is closed, and no CO2 flows. When there is electricity, the solenoid is open, and CO2 flows.

A solenoid provides the option of putting your CO2 onto a timer and/or a pH controller, so that your CO2 will turn on/off automatically. This is beneficial, as it can prolong the amount of time your CO2 will last (i.e. rather than having it on for 24 hours, you can turn it off at night, when plants are no longer photosynthesizing).

Here are some good solenoid brands that I can recommend (in no particular order):
Burkert (Model #: 6011)*
Clippard (Model #: MME-2PDS-D110)*
Fabco (Model #: 3853-O4-A287)*
Parker

Of these 3, the Clippard is the only one (as far as I know) that has the handy feature of having a red LED that indicates when the solenoid is open, and CO2 is flowing. However, many users have reported that the solenoid does get quite warm (sometimes to the point where you cannot leave your hand on it comfortably). The other three brands do not seem to have this overheating issue, but also do not possess the same LED.

Most solenoids run ~$20-30, but you can easily find a cheaper solenoid on eBay (see below and/or PM me for the actual link...)

*Note: These model numbers are for solenoids with a 1/8" female NPT ports on either side. If you wish to have different port sizes, I can forward you the PDF with the appropriate information.

*Note 2: Here is a data sheet for the Fabco solenoid for those that are interested

http://www.fabco-air.com/pdf/bulletin_14CAN_web.pdf

[Darkblade48]

The next piece of equipment we will discuss is the Bubble Counter.

A bubble counter allows us to easily determine the flow rate of the CO2 that is going into the aquarium. We often refer to the flow rate as "bubbles per second." The bubble counter is filled with fluid (it can be water, glycerin, or even mineral oil. The latter two are sometimes preferred because bubbles flow through the liquid slower, making it easier to count. In addition, they do not evaporate like water does), and as gas flows through, bubbles are generated so that you can count your bubble rate.

Many different types of bubble counters exist, from in-line ones, to DIY ones, to commercially bought bubble counters. They all perform the same function, at different costs. Some people prefer one over the other due to aesthetics, size constraints, etc., but in the end, they perform the same function.

Not much else to say on this piece of equipment ;)

[Darkblade48]

An effective method of introducing CO2 into your tank is required. If CO2 bubbles are reaching the surface of the water in your aquarium, then much of it is being lost and you are not getting CO2 dissolved into your water column.

There are various pieces of equipment (listed below) that will help aid in diffusing CO2 into the water. They all aid in the dissolution of CO2 to differing degrees. Whether you use one or not is not important; the important point is being able to get CO2 into your water.

From my previous article, I will just copy/paste the various methods of getting CO2 into your water:

1) Bell Diffuser: A passive method of CO2 diffusion, this relies on the assumption that CO2 will dissolve into the water column faster than the CO2 is produced (not likely). Not an effective method of introducing CO2 into the aquarium.
2) Feeding the CO2 tube into a filter intake: Slightly more efficient, this method allows the CO2 bubbles to be fed into the intake of a filter, allowing the bubbles to be chopped up by the filter impeller. Be warned that this method is said to shorten the lifespan of the filter impeller.
3) Commercially available "bubble ladders": Hagen makes a product that is known as "bubble ladder". This product allows CO2 bubbles to travel a long a track, allowing the CO2 more time to dissolve into the water column. The ladder is quite large and bulky (in my opinion), and some people may find it aesthetically unpleasing.
4) Ceramic disc diffuser: Typically a glass diffuser that contains a ceramic disc with miniature pores. These diffusers were first made by ADA (Aqua Design Amano). Such diffusers rely on the small pores on the ceramic disc to adequately create mini-CO2 bubbles, vastly increasing the rate of CO2 dissolution in water.
5) Inline CO2 reactor: Most arguably the best method of CO2 dissolution, the inline CO2 reactor is inline with a (canister) filter output. Using this method, the CO2 is very effectively dissolved.

[Darkblade48]

Most likely the newest addition to measuring CO2 levels, a drop checker consists of an airspace between the liquid inside the drop checker and the water in the aquarium. Carbon dioxide readily diffuses outwards from water into the air; as such, the carbon dioxide in the aquarium will readily diffuse into the airspace in the drop checker. The liquid inside the drop checker contains a solution of known kH (i.e. 4 or 5 dkH) with an indicator (bromothymol blue (BTB)) which serves as a good indicator of CO2 dissolution. The CO2 that is in the airspace of the drop checker will readily diffuse into the drop checker solution, changing the colour of the BTB indicator.

Different drop checkers exist today. Red Sea makes one, ADA makes one, Cal Aqua makes several, some can be found on eBay etc. Of course, you can also DIY one yourself. They all work essentially the same, and perform the same function. Some people prefer one brand over the other due to aesthetics and/or ease of comparing the colours.

Here are some instructions for making your own DIY drop checker.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/107303-newbie-setup.html#6

In addition to a drop checker, a reference solution is required when using a drop checker. This is usually a 4 dkH reference solution, but it can also be a 3 or a 5 dkH reference solution. The different dkH reference solutions will turn green (in the presence of BTB) at different CO2 levels (for example, the 4 dkH reference solution turns green at 30 ppm of CO2).

Sometimes, you may find instructions that come with purchased drop checkers to use aquarium water, distilled water, or even tap water. These instructions are incorrect and should be ignored. If you do not use a reference solution, you will get incorrect results when using a drop checker.

Many people (mistakenly) believe that the pH/kH/CO2 relationship is the end-all for measuring CO2 levels. They believe that by measuring the pH and kH of the aquarium water, they will know their CO2 levels. However, this is not the case.

The pH/kH/CO2 relationship can only be used if carbonates are the only buffers in the water. However, in the aquarium, there are other factors that will affect this kH reading (such as phosphate buffers). As a result, the pH/kH/CO2 relationship cannot be used with tank water, tap water, or distilled water.

When making a dkH reference solution, we are only adding carbonates to the water, so only here can we make valid conclusions using the pH/kH/CO2 relationship.

Instructions for making your own 4 dkH reference solution are also in the link above :)

[Darkblade48]

Here, we will cover miscellaneous equipment (this maybe considered essential!)

a) Check valve
Placing a check valve is important to prevent a back siphon from occurring. If water were to back siphon, it could go back through the needle valve, destroying your regulator diaphragm. To protect your investment, a check valve provides good protection for a few dollars.

Plastic check valves work fine, but will harden with time (the CO2 makes the plastic brittle), rendering the check valve useless. It is worthwhile to invest a bit more in a brass check valve, as these will not become brittle like their plastic counterparts.

b) Airline tubing
Of course, without airline tubing, you would not be able to get the CO2 from your CO2 tank into your aquarium, so it goes without saying that you will require airline tubing.

The type of tubing does not really matter. I have used your standard vinyl airline tubing as well as your standard silicone airline tubing. Both work fine for our purposes. Some people will point out that silicone tubing is thousands of times more permeable to CO2 than other types of material (there is a website out there with a table showing permeabilization of the various materials). However, given the low pressures at which we work, and the relatively short distances of tubing (say 10-20 feet, at most), the amount of CO2 gas that is loss through silicone tubing is negligible.

While you can purchase CO2 resistant tubing, I find this to be an unnecessary expense.

[Darkblade48]

The last part covers what I consider to be "luxury" items, or completely optional parts (unlike the above).

pH controller
A pH controller (such as those made by Milwaukee) will allow you to determine the pH of your aquarium water on a continual basis. By hooking up the pH controller to a solenoid (which is part of your CO2 system), you can have your pH controller inject CO2 when your pH goes above a certain set point, and have it stop injecting CO2 when your pH drops below a certain set point.

In my opinion, this is completely unnecessary. I believe too much emphasis on aquarium fish requiring the "perfect pH" has been placed in our hobby, leading beginners to believe that certain fish can only be kept at a pH of 6.4, or 7.0, etc.

Perhaps if you are keeping extremely sensitive fish, with very exacting water parameters required, would I see a need for a pH controller. The cost of the controller, probe and the calibration solutions are also quite expensive, but if cost is not an issue for you, then this may be a piece of equipment you would want to consider.

[Darkblade48]

Here, we will discuss pre-built regulators versus putting your own pressurized CO2 system together.

Various pre-built regulators exist on the market today. Most commonly seen are the Milwaukee, Azoo, and JBJ pre-builds. These often come with the regulator, solenoid, needle valve, and perhaps a bubble counter, and are often quite cheap.

However, the one complaint that many users have with these pre-built pressurized CO2 setups is that the stock needle valve "floats." As mentioned before (see the section on needle valves), floating occurs when you set a particular flow rate, but it changes due to the poor construction of the needle valve.

Quality pre-built pressurized CO2 setups do exist, however. Rex Grigg, Orlando (who runs Green Leaf Aquariums) and Mike/Sergio (who run SuMo) all have excellent pre-built pressurized CO2 setups. Here are their respective websites:

http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/index.htm
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/
http://sumoregulator.com/

Another way to obtain a pressurized CO2 setup is to build your own setup from parts that you buy separately and piece together yourself. While this method may seem more laborious, requiring you to buy the parts individually, do research, etc., it may save you money in the long run. This is especially true if you wait for the best deals that pop up on eBay and/or Swap and Shop forums. At the very least, you may be able to get "better" parts for the same price as one of the pre-built pressurized CO2 systems.

[Darkblade48]

Here, I will discuss how to put everything together. Hopefully, I will have some instructive images as well.

The setup I will be describing is as below:

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4083/dsc03040g.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/dsc03040g.jpg/)

The only difference now is that I have also installed a JBJ bubble counter, as seen below.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8298/dsc03066pg.jpg (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/dsc03066pg.jpg/)

The general design is as follows:
CO2 tank -> CO2 Regulator -> Solenoid -> Needle valve -> Bubble Counter -> Diffuser

Some points to watch out for:

Between the CO2 tank and the CO2 regulator, you will require a washer to prevent leaks. This can be a disposable (one time use) nylon washer, or a perma-seal. Sometimes, you can get a nylon washer for free when you get your CO2 tank refilled (just ask!)

Between the regulator and the solenoid: Ensure that the fittings match (i.e. 1/8" to 1/8", or get the necessary adapters. Adapters can be bought for a few dollars at Home Depot and/or Rona.

Between the solenoid and the needle valve: Again, ensure that the fitting sizes match. If they don't, you can buy the necessary adapters at the hardware store.

Between the needle valve and the bubble counter: Again, the same rule as above applies.

Finally, for all connections: You will require either teflon tape or pipe compound (sometimes called pipe dope) to ensure that all the connections are well sealed. I do not recommend teflon tape before the solenoid as there have been reports of people getting small bits of teflon tape lodged within their solenoid, preventing it from closing all the way (this means CO2 will still flow!). As such, I recommend pipe compound instead (this can be bought from the hardware store for a few dollars as well). Use it sparingly, and don't use it excessively.

After putting the entire setup together, be sure to check all the connections for leaks using soapy water. By brushing/spraying the soapy water onto the connections, you will be able to detect any leaks due to the formation of tiny bubbles.

[Darkblade48]

Finally, some basic instructions on how to use your pressurized CO2 system now that you have everything hooked up.

First, before opening your CO2 cylinder, ensure that the front knob on the regulator is turned counter clockwise until you feel little to no resistance. This ensures that you will not destroy your low pressure gauge when you first open the CO2 tank (many people have done this!)

Next, close your needle valve all the way, and reopen slightly. The needle valve should not be completely closed.

Third, open your CO2 tank valve. A half turn or so should be more than sufficient to ensure that the valve is open. The high pressure gauge on the regulator at this point should register the pressure of the tank.

Now, slowly turn the knob on your regulator clockwise. Slowly do this. You will begin to see the delivery pressure (low pressure gauge) increase. You will want to stop when it is ~5-20 PSI (again, this depends on the size of your tank, ultimately how much gas you want to flow, etc).

Finally, at this point, adjust your needle valve so that the desired CO2 flow rate is achieved.

[Darkblade48]

If you can think of any more, let me know!

Bubble Counter: A piece of equipment that allows you to determine the flow rate of your CO2 in "bubbles per second". Optional. Can be made DIY or bought commercially.

CO2: Carbon dioxide. Plants require carbon in order to grow, and carbon dioxide is provided as a carbon source.

Delivery Pressure: Also known as the working pressure. This is the pressure that is indicated by the low pressure gauge. Standard delivery pressures vary from 5 - 20 PSI.

Drop checker: A piece of equipment that will help determine whether optimal levels of CO2 are being reached. Optional. Can be made DIY or bought commercially.

Dual gauge: A regulator that has two pressure gauges (two manometers). One pressure gauge will indicate the pressure in the CO2 tank, while the other gauge will indicate the delivery pressure.

Dual stage: A regulator that has two stages of pressure regulation. c.f. single gauge and single stage.

End of tank dump: A phenomenon whereby the remainder of a nearly empty CO2 tank will empty its contents into the aquarium.

Metering valve: See needle valve.

Needle valve: A piece of equipment that further drops the delivery pressure so that even finer control of CO2 flow can be achieved.

pH controller: A piece of equipment that will measure your aquarium water pH and inject/stop injecting CO2 as the pH rises above a set point/drops below a set point, respectively. Optional. Requires a solenoid.

Regulator: A piece of equipment that drops the CO2 tank pressure to a much lower delivery pressure.

Single gauge: Refers to a regulator with only one pressure gauge (manometer). Will indicate the delivery pressure.

Single stage: A regulator that only contains one stage of pressure control. c.f. single gauge and dual stage.

Solenoid: An electronic switch that will open/close depending on whether electricity is flowing or not. Will allow you to put your CO2 onto a timer, so that you can turn it on/off automatically. Is required when using a pH controller.

Working Pressure: See Delivery Pressure

[Gerryd]

Anthony,

Great job. I made it a sticky in the c02 forum......

[herns]

Here, I will discuss how to put everything together. Hopefully, I will have some instructive images as well.

The setup I will be describing is as below:

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4083/dsc03040g.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/dsc03040g.jpg/)

The only difference now is that I have also installed a JBJ bubble counter, as seen below.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8298/dsc03066pg.jpg (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/dsc03066pg.jpg/)

The general design is as follows:
CO2 tank -> CO2 Regulator -> Solenoid -> Needle valve -> Bubble Counter -> Diffuser

Some points to watch out for:

Between the CO2 tank and the CO2 regulator, you will require a washer to prevent leaks. This can be a disposable (one time use) nylon washer, or a perma-seal. Sometimes, you can get a nylon washer for free when you get your CO2 tank refilled (just ask!)

Between the regulator and the solenoid: Ensure that the fittings match (i.e. 1/8" to 1/8", or get the necessary adapters. Adapters can be bought for a few dollars at Home Depot and/or Rona.

Between the solenoid and the needle valve: Again, ensure that the fitting sizes match. If they don't, you can buy the necessary adapters at the hardware store.

Between the needle valve and the bubble counter: Again, the same rule as above applies.

Finally, for all connections: You will require either teflon tape or pipe compound (sometimes called pipe dope) to ensure that all the connections are well sealed. I do not recommend teflon tape before the solenoid as there have been reports of people getting small bits of teflon tape lodged within their solenoid, preventing it from closing all the way (this means CO2 will still flow!). As such, I recommend pipe compound instead (this can be bought from the hardware store for a few dollars as well). Use it sparingly, and don't use it excessively.

After putting the entire setup together, be sure to check all the connections for leaks using soapy water. By brushing/spraying the soapy water onto the connections, you will be able to detect any leaks due to the formation of tiny bubbles.

Very nice Regulator configuration.

[Darkblade48]

Very nice Regulator configuration.

Thanks! :D

[Tug]

Maybe this will get me off of my ass. :)
Thank you and Left C for your posts on this subject.

[Tom Barr]

If folks have other pictures of their gas systems that are different etc, better view etc this will be helpful for this thread.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Left C]

Thank you for posting this, Anthony. Good job!

[Left C]

Here's some of my builds.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s320/Left_C/FrontShot.jpg

[csmith]

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy316/CASDB/20%20Gallon/RegulatorVictorVTS253A.jpg

[herns]

The $9.99 Brand New, Concoa 212 Series

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n189/herns/Concoa%20Regulator/Concoa1.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n189/herns/Reg2.jpg

[Oreo]

(Sorry for the duplicate cross posting but someone requested I put this here also.)

Finally got my bubble counter from the opposite side of the Earth. Time to show off my creation:

$62 - Concoa 312-2331 regulator
$17 - two Micro gauges
$18 - Parker solenoid valve
$45 - Swagelock B-2MA2 metering valve
$18 - JBJ / Aquamagic bubble counter.
$20 - Brass fittings
================
$180

If you add in:
$120 pH controller (& ORP monitor)
$07 - PVC braided tubing
$60 - 15lb empty CO2 tank
$23 - CO2 tank fill-up
$29 - Parker 2M-C2L-1/3-SS stainless check valve
================
$239

That's about $420 grand total (including shipping) for an up-and-running, kick-ass CO2 system. That's over $100 less then the best system offered by GLA and that would be a single stage reg & 10lb CO2 tank. Ebay rocks!

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/jdecar1/Aquarium/P1012897.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/jdecar1/Aquarium/P1012894.jpg

[S&KGray]

Matheson Model 8, Asco 8262 brass solenoid valve, Swagelok B-4MA
(recently sold this setup)
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/th_DSC00882.jpg (http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/DSC00882.jpg)

Concoa 412, Skinner B series SS solenoid valve, Swagelok B-4MA
(just put together, pics taken while testing)

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/th_DSC00915.jpg (http://s635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/DSC00915.jpg)
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/th_DSC00918.jpg (http://s635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/DSC00918.jpg)
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/th_DSC00917.jpg (http://s635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/DSC00917.jpg)
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/th_DSC00916.jpg (http://s635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/DSC00916.jpg)
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/th_DSC00921.jpg (http://s635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/S-KGray/CO2/DSC00921.jpg)

[Oreo]

Nicely done! You should take a buffing wheel and some polish to that Concoa 412. She'd be a real trophy girl.

[Mike1971]

I have only been doing planted tanks for about 4 months. I built this set up for around $125.00 and $80.00 for a 5lb. tank. If I may give advice as a newbie I would say research as much as you can before you buy something. I have replaced everything from my original setup (substrate, lights, filter, CO2 injection, power head) from buying things quickly without researching. Now that I am at good steady CO2 levels, good circulation, and 2wpg of light with EI dosing, I have very few problems and just focus on how my plants look. The people who post in the "Duel stage regulator thread" are incredibly helpful and friendly. When I start my next tank, the first thing I will do is build another quality CO2 delivery system before anything else.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj179/stewiekillyou/0112.jpg?t=1275085940

[herns]

I have only been doing planted tanks for about 4 months. I built this set up for around $125.00 and $80.00 for a 5lb. tank. If I may give advice as a newbie I would say research as much as you can before you buy something. I have replaced everything from my original setup (substrate, lights, filter, CO2 injection, power head) from buying things quickly without researching. Now that I am at good steady CO2 levels, good circulation, and 2wpg of light with EI dosing, I have very few problems and just focus on how my plants look. The people who post in the "Duel stage regulator thread" are incredibly helpful and friendly. When I start my next tank, the first thing I will do is build another quality CO2 delivery system before anything else.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj179/stewiekillyou/0112.jpg?t=1275085940

I like that JBJ bc being mounted on top of Ideal V.

[yikesjason]

I just wanted to throw my hat in the ring with my favorite co2 build.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8646/img0436z.jpg

And here is my first dual stage build from just this week.
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8350/img0065fb.jpg

[S&KGray]

I just wanted to throw my hat in the ring with my favorite co2 build.

And here is my first dual stage build from just this week.

Very nice! What is the brand and model of the dual stage regulator?

[Koen_v_V]

Hi, this is my setup, using european brand Vulkan dual stage reg. Looks more ackward than the most build I see in the threads. But hey, it does the job!

1448

[yikesjason]

Very nice! What is the brand and model of the dual stage regulator?

I never did figure out for sure. It was on a medical blood gas cylinder and had a label that said it was manufactured for Bayer. I built this for someone else and already shipped it, so I can't even tell you what other info was on there because I didn't write it down. It was a very nice regulator.

[barbarossa4122]

Hi ,

Sumoregulator.com is selling 3 different types of drop checker solutions, 15ppm, 30ppm or 45ppm ? OK to purchase the 30ppm ?
http://sumoregulator.com/DropCheckerSolutions.html

[barbarossa4122]

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/005.jpg?t=1293458250

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/007-1.jpg?t=1293458396

Have to wait another day to fill up the co2 tanks due to the blizzard in NYC but, I have everything else ready to finally start using co2 in my 3 tanks. Can't wait:)
Fabco NV55 goes with this set ups.
http://is7.itookthisonmyphone.com/m/00018/7d32e326-7976-4061-b53c-9b76bb054a1d/da5c00ca-9a3d-4099-96eb-dbb3af4b8e8f_339x568r0.jpg

Many thanks to a TPT member who did this for me.

[Left C]

Hi barbbarossa

You built some nice regulators!!

Left C

[Matt F.]

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/005.jpg?t=1293458250



Switch that solenoid around. You have it in the wrong direction, which could cause leaks.

[Left C]

double post

[Left C]

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/007-1.jpg?t=1293458396

Many thanks to a TPT member who did this for me.We can't tell if you have the Burkert solenoid on this one mounted in the correct direction.

The solenoid is marked with a "P" and an "A" on one of its sides. The NPT port closest to the "P" mark is the solenoid's input from the regulator. And the NPT port closest to the "N" mark is the solenoid's output where the needle valve assembly attaches.

[barbarossa4122]

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/005.jpg?t=1293458250



Switch that solenoid around. You have it in the wrong direction, which could cause leaks.

OK. But, I was told that it was tested and it worked. I'll switch it if I must.

[barbarossa4122]

We can't tell if you have the Burkert solenoid on this one mounted in the correct direction.

The solenoid is marked with a "P" and an "A" on one of its sides. The NPT port closest to the "P" mark is the solenoid's input from the regulator. And the NPT port closest to the "N" mark is the solenoid's output where the needle valve assembly attaches.
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/007-1.jpg?t=1293458396

I think this one needs to be switch around also. Again, I read Matt's thread about the flow direction the other day and I did notice that mine are installed in the "wrong" direction but again, I was told they were tested and they work. I am not arguing this, just state the facts. I'll switch them around, no problem but, is there a chance that they will not leak.
Btw, I knew someone will mention this sooner or later.

[barbarossa4122]

We can't tell if you have the Burkert solenoid on this one mounted in the correct direction.

The solenoid is marked with a "P" and an "A" on one of its sides. The NPT port closest to the "P" mark is the solenoid's input from the regulator. And the NPT port closest to the "N" mark is the solenoid's output where the needle valve assembly attaches.
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/007-1.jpg?t=1293458396

As you look at this picture, on the other side "A" is to the right close to the regulator and "P" is to the left further away from the regulator. Is this correct ?

Edit:
This is the pic of the other side:
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/010.jpg?t=1293533825

[Matt F.]

OK. But, I was told that it was tested and it worked. I'll switch it if I must.

I had to switch several of my burkerts around when I found out, too. I spoke with the engineers at burkert about this issue. Both sides are not identical. The "P" side is for pressurized gas. The "A" side is the side that needs to connect to the needle valve.

They are not designed to work with a reverse gas flow. They can, but are not designed to.
Not many people know what they are doing when it comes to installing these things (I was included in this group till the Burkert engineers tested my brand new solenoid and educated me as to why it wouldn't close).

They look at the description, which says it's 2-way unit, and automatically assume that there is no difference between the sides.

This is totally incorrect.

on the NPT side, "T" is the pressurized side (closest to the regulator) and "N" is the needle valve side.
"P" on the obverse side and "A" towards the neelde valve.

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/7864-Burkert-Solenoids-gas-flow-direction-is-important-in-preventing-leaks

[barbarossa4122]

I had to switch several of my burkerts around when I found out, too. I spoke with the engineers at burkert about this issue. Both sides are not identical. The "P" side is for pressurized gas. The "A" side is the side that needs to connect to the needle valve.

They are not designed to work with a reverse gas flow. They can, but are not designed to.
Not many people know what they are doing when it comes to installing these things (I was included in this group till the Burkert engineers tested my brand new solenoid and educated me as to why it wouldn't close).

They look at the description, which says it's 2-way unit, and automatically assume that there is no difference between the sides.

This is totally incorrect.

on the NPT side, "T" is the pressurized side (closest to the regulator) and "N" is the needle valve side.
"P" on the obverse side and "A" towards the neelde valve.

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/7864-Burkert-Solenoids-gas-flow-direction-is-important-in-preventing-leaks

Hi Matt,

Got it loud and clear and I'll do the switch. How about the last pic I posted ? Switch that one too ? Thank you.

[Matt F.]

Hi, there!

I can't tell for sure from the pic.

rule of thumb for that side (T) should be closest to the regulator and the (N) side should be connected closest to the needle valve.

(low pressure side) "NPT" (pressure side) gas flow in this configuration <------------------

[barbarossa4122]

Hi, there!

I can't tell for sure from the pic.

rule of thumb for that side (T) should be closest to the regulator and the (N) side should be connected closest to the needle valve.

(low pressure side) "NPT" (pressure side) gas flow in this configuration <------------------

This is the pic:

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/010.jpg?t=1293533825

I am switching them this morning.

[Matt F.]

This is the pic:

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/010.jpg?t=1293533825

Yes, that is incorrect (or the wrong flow direction). I'd switch it and forget it. ;)

[Left C]

OK. But, I was told that it was tested and it worked. I'll switch it if I must.

I think this one needs to be switch around also. Again, I read Matt's thread about the flow direction the other day and I did notice that mine are installed in the "wrong" direction but again, I was told they were tested and they work. I am not arguing this, just state the facts. I'll switch them around, no problem but, is there a chance that they will not leak.
Btw, I knew someone will mention this sooner or later.They will operate in that orientation, but they will leak. I know from first hand experience and Matt heard his leaking. Matt contacted support and got the installation confirmation information from them and posted it.

Look at the small rectangular diagram that is on the bottom of page 1 in the following pdf. The small diagram is at the lower left hand corner that has Circuit function A in bold letters right above it.
http://burkert.com/products_data/datasheets/DS6011-Standard-EU-EN.pdf

You'll notice an arrow pointing upwards indicating the direction of flow. Notice that the "P" is below the bottom of the arrow and the "A" is above the point of the arrow. On the left side of the diagram is a tiny rectangle with a "/" in it. This represents the shaft that goes through the black plastic body.You can see this same diagram on pages 4, 5, 6 and 7.

On page 2, it has a diagram labeled "Material." In the diagram underneath the word "Material", notice that for the part labeled "1" there is a horizontal hole running through it from the left side to the right side. The left side is the "P" side and the right side is the "A" side. You can see that the left side of that hole is drawn differently than the right side. There is a hole going upwards toward part "2" on the left side and a smaller hole leading down directly from part 2 going into the horizontal hole on the right side. There is a barrier between the left and right sides of that horizontal hole. When you hold up the solenoid and look at it; you can see what these diagrams are indicating. I hope this makes sense. It is a bit hard to describe.

[Left C]

Wow! I'm a slow typer. You guys have written several posts while I was working on the one above.

[Matt F.]

They will operate in that orientation, but they will leak. I know from first hand experience and Matt heard his leaking. Matt contacted support and got the installation confirmation information from them and posted it.

Look at the small rectangular diagram that is on the bottom of page 1 in the following pdf. The small diagram is at the lower left hand corner that has Circuit function A in bold letters right above it.
http://burkert.com/products_data/datasheets/DS6011-Standard-EU-EN.pdf

You'll notice an arrow pointing upwards indicating the direction of flow. Notice that the "P" is below the bottom of the arrow and the "A" is above the point of the arrow. On the left side of the diagram is a tiny rectangle with a "/" in it. This represents the shaft that goes through the black plastic body.You can see this same diagram on pages 4, 5, 6 and 7.

On page 2, it has a diagram labeled "Material." In the diagram underneath the word "Material", notice that for the part labeled "1" there is a horizontal hole running through it from the left side to the right side. The left side is the "P" side and the right side is the "A" side. You can see that the left side of that hole is drawn differently than the right side. There is a hole going upwards toward part "2" on the left side and a smaller hole leading down directly from part 2 going into the horizontal hole on the right side. There is a barrier between the left and right sides of that horizontal hole. When you hold up the solenoid and look at it; you can see what these diagrams are indicating. I hope this makes sense. It is a bit hard to describe.

Excellent write up. I actually sent my brand new "leaky" solenoid back to the engineers. They tested it and found no problems. I wondered why, so I inquired. iprocessmart.com put the pieces together that the gas flow was backwards. The engineers confirmed the diagnosis. No problems since. ;)

[barbarossa4122]

I gave it a try a few min ago but, the problem is that the whole thing, the solenoid is already connected to the manifold and the regulator body. I don't have what is need it to take everything apart. I tried and they are really tight. No big deal, I know a shop around my house that will do it for me. Do I make any sense ?

[barbarossa4122]

Excellent write up. I actually sent my brand new "leaky" solenoid back to the engineers. They tested it and found no problems. I wondered why, so I inquired. iprocessmart.com put the pieces together that the gas flow was backwards. The engineers confirmed the diagnosis. No problems since. ;)

Just my luck:) Not the end of the world, it will be fixed. Thanks for the help folks. You are the best.

[Left C]

Just my luck:) Not the end of the world, it will be fixed. Thanks for the help folks. You are the best.You didn't build them yourself, did you?

[barbarossa4122]

They will operate in that orientation, but they will leak. I know from first hand experience and Matt heard his leaking. Matt contacted support and got the installation confirmation information from them and posted it.

Look at the small rectangular diagram that is on the bottom of page 1 in the following pdf. The small diagram is at the lower left hand corner that has Circuit function A in bold letters right above it.
http://burkert.com/products_data/datasheets/DS6011-Standard-EU-EN.pdf

You'll notice an arrow pointing upwards indicating the direction of flow. Notice that the "P" is below the bottom of the arrow and the "A" is above the point of the arrow. On the left side of the diagram is a tiny rectangle with a "/" in it. This represents the shaft that goes through the black plastic body.You can see this same diagram on pages 4, 5, 6 and 7.
On page 2, it has a diagram labeled "Material." In the diagram underneath the word "Material", notice that for the part labeled "1" there is a horizontal hole running through it from the left side to the right side. The left side is the "P" side and the right side is the "A" side. You can see that the left side of that hole is drawn differently than the right side. There is a hole going upwards toward part "2" on the left side and a smaller hole leading down directly from part 2 going into the horizontal hole on the right side. There is a barrier between the left and right sides of that horizontal hole. When you hold up the solenoid and look at it; you can see what these diagrams are indicating. I hope this makes sense. It is a bit hard to describe.


Great diagram Left C. Thanks.

[barbarossa4122]

You didn't build them yourself, did you?

Nope but, I do not want to blame anybody since not many folks know this "little secret".

[Matt F.]

All you need are two adjustable wrenches (I use an 8" and a 10") and some teflon tape of non-hardening thread sealer.

[barbarossa4122]

All you need are two adjustable wrenches (I use an 8" and a 10") and some teflon tape of non-hardening thread sealer.

OK. I'll try again.

[Matt F.]

OK. I'll try again.

Don't feel bad, I had to re-do three of my solenoids! ;)

[Left C]

Great diagram Left C. Thanks.

Did my description make sense to you? It was somewhat hard to write because I'm not versed in the symbols used in those diagrams.

[barbarossa4122]

Did my description make sense to you? It was somewhat hard to write because I'm not versed in the symbols used in those diagrams.

Yep, it did.

[barbarossa4122]

Don't feel bad, I had to re-do three of my solenoids! ;)

I am not. Even better I did learn something out of this.
Now, I did take everything apart including one of the gauges and I am ready to do the switch. OnE Q : Do I have to put thread sealer on ALL the threads ?

[Left C]

Yep, it did.Thanks for tolerating my slow typing.

[Matt F.]

just put a dab on the threads (maybe half a pea size dap) and spread it around the lower threads (those that will make contact with the female threads).

For teh pressure gauge, I would use teflon tape. non hardening thread sealer is okay if you don't have teflon tape.

[barbarossa4122]

just put a dab on the threads (maybe half a pea size dap) and spread it around the lower threads (those that will make contact with the female threads).

For teh pressure gauge, I would use teflon tape. non hardening thread sealer is okay if you don't have teflon tape.

Got it. Thanks Matt.

[barbarossa4122]

This is what I did and I hope I did it the right way.

this is the compound i used

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/020.jpg?t=1293542619

If I did this right, I'll start working on the other one, the Victor.

[barbarossa4122]

These are the correct pics after the switch around. Please let me know what you think.

The front of the regulator:

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/023.jpg?t=1293548708

The back of the regulator:

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz242/barbarossa4122/022-1.jpg?t=1293548814

[barbarossa4122]

Hi barbbarossa

You built some nice regulators!!

Left C

Lol, I did not but, in a way I did since as you already know I had to take them apart to switch the solenoid around. It's fine, I learned something. :)
Waiting for the diffusers, fill up the tanks and I am ready to go by the end of this week, I hope.
Heck, wife was making fun of me this morning when I was working on this. She never saw me doing "manual" labor.

[Left C]

Lol, I did not but, in a way I did since as you already know I had to take them apart to switch the solenoid around. It's fine, I learned something. :)
Waiting for the diffusers, fill up the tanks and I am ready to go by the end of this week, I hope.
Heck, wife was making fun of me this morning when I was working on this. She never saw me doing "manual" labor.The answer is yes, that's correct, that's the correct stuff, etc to your questions.

You should of built them yourself. That way she could laugh at you for putting them together wrong. Haha!!!

Didn't I tell you that the "P" side is the input side for the solenoid and the "A" side is for the needle valve? I am thinking that I did, but maybe I didn't.

You should be glad that Matt caught this before you emptied two CO2 cylinders in only a few days.

[barbarossa4122]

The answer is yes, that's correct, that's the correct stuff, etc to your questions.

You should of built them yourself. That way she could laugh at you for putting them together wrong. Haha!!!

Didn't I tell you that the "P" side is the input side for the solenoid and the "A" side is for the needle valve? I am thinking that I did, but maybe I didn't.

You should be glad that Matt caught this before you emptied two CO2 cylinders in only a few days.

Lol! I did not post the pics for that reason but, I remembered Matt's instructions and it cross my mind that I could have a problem. Then, in the morning I saw Matt's post pointing out the mistakes. Thanks a lot Matt.

Left C maybe you did tell me but, it's hard for me to remember and I can't even check your past Pms b/c I deleted them. Chances are that you did.
I wonder how many ppl do know about this little trick with the Burkert solenoid. Not many, I reckon. Eh, water under the bridge now. Everything turned out OK thanks to you guys and this forum. Oh, and the Burkert folks.
My wife is very handy but, she doesn't have too much time to spare between her job and her studying for the master degree.

[barbarossa4122]

You should be glad that Matt caught this before you emptied two CO2 cylinders in only a few days.

Lol, I have 3 cylinders .

[barbarossa4122]

Hi Darkblade,

I am looking at your bubble counter from your pics and I see that it is not completely filled.
This is the bubble counter I'll be using:
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/images/ista-bubble-counter2_sm.jpg

Do I have to fill it completely with glycerine or water ?

[barbarossa4122]

Hi,
Another Q please: It's OK to store a filled 5lb co2 cylinder in horizontal position ?

[barbarossa4122]

First, before opening your CO2 cylinder, ensure that the front knob on the regulator is turned counter clockwise until you feel little to no resistance. This ensures that you will not destroy your low pressure gauge when you first open the CO2 tank (many people have done this!)

Does this mean to turn the knob counter clockwise all the way ?

[darkoon]

Hi,
Another Q please: It's OK to store a filled 5lb co2 cylinder in horizontal position ?

You can store it in horizontal position, but you should not use it in horizontal position, it's mostly liquidfied CO2 in a fully-filled cylinder.

[barbarossa4122]

Thanks darkoon.

[darkoon]

Does this mean to turn the knob counter clockwise all the way ?

yes.
though the high quality regulators are usually fine even if you have a preset output pressure. the cheap one will get destroyed for sure. I blew my Milwaukee one that way, and that's how I started learning about 2-stage regulators.

[barbarossa4122]

Do you folks like the Matheson 3122-346 ? I found an used one for a decent price. It's not from Ebay, it's from a trusted member from another forum.

[Tom Barr]

Thanks for the in depth run down, I may "borrow" some of this for the upcoming book.

[150EH]

I've seen a lot of very good gear in this thread and I think there are some new options that might be mentioned. AP.com has a new regulator that is electronic and controls the bubble count and bubble size without a solenoid, it still uses a high and low pressure gauge but the amount dispensed is very accurate. I am equally impressed with their external reactor which I started using with an old Dupla 400 regulator (low pressure gauge only, but needle tuning is very fine) at a slow 1 bps to achieve 25.2 ppm CO2 in the water column of a 150 gallon tank, I think the design of this reator makes it very efficient and it is great for larger tanks. Although these items are not for the hobbiest that prefers to build their own gear it is great for us folks that like easy automation.

[Darkblade48]

It's been a long time, but I've updated some of the information in this thread.